Genealogy Chat

Hmm.......1901 again,
I have a man that becomes a father for the third time, in early 1901, but disappears.........his wife has a child in early 1903, and marries that childs' father in late 1903........as a "Widow" but no sign of a death for the first husband.......

Bob

n for Helen

Thanks Sylvia i know about the lady on ancestry.

Louise was married 4 times, we just do not know where Horace went to??

Many be we will never know?

Thanks everyone.

not quite as said on that tree ... ut this looks like her in 1891!

1891 Census

Name: Alberta L De Morey Holmes
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary A A Holmes
Gender: Female
Where born: Holloway, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell

Mary A A Holmes 41 Mar
Alberta L De Morey Holmes 25 Mar, Music Hall Artiste
Harry Ernest Holmes 17
Horace C Holmes 14
Laura B Holmes 11
Herman H H Holmes 8

Address:- 75 Musded (??sp) Rd


sylvia

1891 but no Horace !

Name: Alberta L De Morey Holmes
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1866
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Mary A A Holmes
Gender: Female
Where born: Holloway, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 75 Muxted? Rd.

Occupation: Music Hall Artiste.

Condition as to marriage: Married.


Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Camberwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 19

Mary A A Holmes 41 Head. Married. Chelsea, Middlesex
Alberta L De Morey Holmes 25 Daug. Holloway, Essex
Harry Ernest Holmes 17 Son. Highgate, Middlesex
Horace C Holmes 14 Son. Hornsey, Essex
Laura B Holmes 11 Daug. Hornsey, Essex, England
Herman H H Holmes 8 Son. Highgate, Middlesex

On the 1891 census,its under----

Alberta Lousia De Mory Holmes, living with her mother and two brothers but no husband! married age 20.maxted street east dulwich.

a tree on ancestry has this

Horace De Mory

1891
Marriage to Gertrude Louisa Alberta Holmes
Camberwell, England, United Kingdom
BMD 1d 1142



Gertrude Louisa Alberta Holmes

Birth
1870
Hornsey Rise, Middlesex, England



1891 Census
Age: 21
Residence
Camberwell, London, England
as 'Alberta Delmorey Holmes'



sylvia

Have you found Louise/Alberta in the 1891 census? As the marriage was registered in the March quarter she should be on a census in April.

Ozi

Name: Alfred Samuel Rudd
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Age at enlistment: 22
Birth Parish: Camberwell
Birth County: Surrey
Document Year: 1890
Regimental Number: 24816
Regiment Name: Royal Engineers
Number of Images: 10

Died 1. 7. 1900. Bloemfontein, South Africa from Enteric? Fever.

Name & address of next of kin - Samuel Rudd, 110 Rye Lane, Peckham, London. Wife Louise.

Married to whom, date, place - Louise Alberto, Camberwell, 23.5.93. (Without leave)

Children -

Alfred Henry 11.9.93
Horace Harold - 3.1.97
Wm Cyril Harry - 4.1.00

So, is this her in 1901? If so she seems to have either ditched or killed off poor Alfred Rudd as she's listed as a widow..... although I can't seem to find a death registration for him!!

1901 England Census
about Louise Rudd Name: Louise Rudd
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Highgate, London, England

Civil Parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members: Name Age
Louise Rudd 27 ....no occupation
Alfred Rudd 7
Horace Rudd 4
Cyril Rudd 1
Florence Dold 28 ...sister
William Dold 36


This is the marriage for Florence and William

Marriages Mar 1891
Beaston George John Camberwell 1d 1152
*****Dold William Camberwell 1d 1152
FOWLES Kate Emily Camberwell 1d 1152
*****Holmes Florence Maria Camberwell 1d 1152
Page George John Camberwell 1d 1152

You are right its a mystery.
Louise seems to have a great life,she changed her age most of her life.

She was 18 at her first marriage, did she do this without her parents permission? was the marriage anullemt(?). Would this make her a spinster again??

Surely, if the same Alberta Louisa Holmes that married Horace de Mory in 1891 was married to Alfred Rudd in 1893, the father's name would show
??? Holmes rather than Charles Alberto and she would be listed as a widow rather than a spinster........

The female witness to the Louise Alberto/Alfred Rudd wedding was
Edith Jessie Alexandera Thomas and the male was Stansfield Albert Victor Thomas.

This would match this wedding

Marriages Sep 1890 Finch Charles Henry Camberwell 1d 1296
*****HOLMES Edith Alexanderia J Camberwell 1d 1296
Thomas Stansfeld Albert V Camberwell 1d 1296
*****THOMAS Stansfield Albert V Camberwell 1d 1296
Windley Harriet Camberwell 1d 1296


So, a little mystery as to why your lady should have put herself down as a spinster and not be using her original name of Holmes......


On Ediths wedding she lists father as Charles Holmes, so the first names match and Louise seems to have adopted a version of her first name as her stage name and given that to her father on her second marriage????

This lady seems to have married 4 times.

This first marriage to horace, the only prove we have is that one of the wittness is her married sister.

Horace and louise were actors

Was he a soldier perhaps so died overseas?

I don't think they are the same lady

This is the marriage for Louise Alberto in 1893 - she's listed as a 21 year old spinster

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Louisa Albert Name: Louisa Albert
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1872
Spouse Name: Alfred Samuel Rudd
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 23 May 1893
Parish: St Giles, Camberwell
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Charles Albert
Spouse Father Name: Samuel Rudd

Horace De Mory 1891 Camberwell Greater London, London, Surrey
View Record
Alberta Louise Holmes 1891 Camberwell Greater London, London,



Louise Alberto 1893 Camberwell Greater London, London, Surrey
. Alfred Samuel Rudd 1893 Camberwell Greater London, London, Surrey


how do you know this is the same person

Horace De Mory married louise Holmes in 1891camberwell.

Louise (same lady) married Alfred rudd in 1893 camberwell.

My question being --where has horace gone? nothing found.

where can i look? There is only 17 month between the two marriages.
many thanks helen.