Genealogy Chat

Does anyone know whether or not a person's birth certificate is marked in any way if they have been adopted? If, for example, someone was born in 1938 and then adopted out of a family as an infant would the original birth certificate show this? And would the original birth certificate be available to anyone who applied for a copy?

Carole

I think it would depend on whether it was an official or unofficial adoption.

from; http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/index.htm

Since 1927, all adoptions granted by the courts in England and Wales, and some overseas adoptions, are recorded in the Adopted Children Register. The register is not open to public search or inspection, but adopted persons and parents can apply to receive adoption certificates.

If a child is born and adopted in England or Wales
Registering an adoption can take up to six weeks, from the time the court issues the adoption order to the General Register Office updating the Adopted Children Register. This replaces the original birth record, which is marked ‘adopted’.

Someone mentioned an additional letter/code on the index before a certain date which may be a good indicator but wouldn't confirm adoption. I don't know how true it is.

I don't think you can order adoption certificates unless you are the adoptee, re the originals (depending on how old the birth is) I think you need to know the details ie parents etc but again I would check this.

(NB the link posted above may be the best place to start :) )

I have just checked one of mine who was adopted in 1938 and his original birth record is there recorded in 1928

The original birth certificate from 1938 will state a hand written entry,,Adopted and signed,it is not amended in name.

You should be able to get a copy.

You can not apply for an after adoption certificate,

Thank you everyone for your help. I don't know my way around this site.
I have discovered the births of three children born to my mother's cousin and none of these children is known to the rest of the family. Their older sister who remained in the family denies any knowledge of these babies born 1938,1942 and 1945. According to the registrations they have the same parents although their father was in the Army and died of wounds in a military hospital in 1945. Interestingly, their mother remarried within a few months of his death. I think they may have been adopted. They didn't die in infancy. I suppose I have little chance of finding them.
Thank you for your help.

Carole,

The birth registrations dont name the parents only surnames are given and it could be a case that 4 people share a common surname married in the same area,and the birth registrations you have found could be a coincidence.-------

I wondered if this might have happened. The second cousin I am working with on this case is looking for her late father's half sibblings. He was illigitimate and was passed around the family when his mother married (not to his father). He was eventually placed in care. He went by his mother's maiden name and refused to talk about his mother who rejected him.
My second cousin is convinced by the address on one of the missing children's certificate that they are the correct parents. However, the certificate is not marked in any way that suggests adoption. Added to this, their mother has been described by other members of the family as living a difficult life. It may be that they were adopted witihin the wider extended family informally.

You say that the mother 're-married' but was she in fact married to the father of the three children at all.........if she wasn't, and her perhaps fiance from before the relationship with their father, returned.......found there were three children that were not his.........he could perhaps have said that he could not/would not take them on....and in order to marry him......she let them go, perhaps temporarily, intending or hoping to get them back later........that could be why there was not any adoption record.......

If she was married...... given the dates of birth of two of them, they could have been 'war babies', there were a lot of us........who were then adopted when our mother's husbands returned........the word 'adopted' would only appear on birth certificates in their original names, that were issued after the adoption. If you knew their birth names and looked in the birth registers, the word adopted would have been written by the birth record.

Also, given their ages, if they had simply been put into 'care' of some kind, relative, friend, 'Home'.....they might well have ended up among the children sent out to Australia in the 1950s.....many of those did come from childrens' homes, and often they had been put there because mother had died and father had to work and had no close relative to look after them........or father had died and mother simply had no money.......often when a parent went back to reclaim a child when their circumstances improved, they found that the child had been sent to Australia 'for a better life', without the parent even being asked for their permission.....many records are now being searched for by these 'Australian' children, who now they are into their 60s and older, are making a last ditch effort to find their pasts So that is another possibility to look into..........

Eileen
birth name.

Yes, that's an interesting idea. Worth a try. Two of the children were certainly war babies. Their mother married very quickly after the last child was born and her husband died shortly afterwards in a military hospital.
I'll look into the possibility of the Australia connection. Thank you.

On this same subject, I'm wondering whether anyone can cast some light on this mystery:

I am searching for any children of Millicent Porkess and Arnold Butler, both born in 1906 and married in 1930. A search on Findmypast using Arnold as father and Porkess as the mother's maiden name produces one Butler, born in Manchester.

However, the search links to an index entry in which the mother's name is blank.

I ordered the certificate. It lists one Elsie Rose Butler as the mother. The father's name and occupation are left blank, and there is the 'Adopted' notation on the margin. I assume Elsie Rose Butler is the adoptive mother. Is that correct?

So why does Findmypast connect the name Porkess with this birth? And why does it show Butler as the father's name? Is it conceivable that the birth mother's name, which is supposed to be confidential, is linked in the Findmypast database? Could an adopted person find their birth mother's name simply by searching Findmypast?

If I had much hair left I'd be tearing it out. Thanks to anyone with advice to offer.

David - no, she was his birth mother, she gave him for adoption.

not sure what you mean by
However, the search links to an index entry in which the mother's name is blank.


presume this is your marriage

Marriages Dec 1930

Atkinson Caroline E Wade Glanford B. 7a 1677
Butler Arnold C K Porkess Glanford B 7a 1677 <<
Porkess Millicent Butler Glanford B. 7a 1677 <<
Wade Thomas Atkinson Glanford B. 7a 1677

Thanks to all.
The reference to the blank mother's name concerns the entry in the birth index for Xxxxx Butler (1944). In the index, the space that would normally be occupied by the mother's maiden name is blank. I have never seen that before.

I am aware of the marriage of Arnold and Millicent in 1930. The problem is that a search for any children of that marriage produces an entry for David Butler, but the resulting certificate seems to show someone who has no connection to either of them.

I was under the impression that the names of birth parents of adopted children are kept secret. Is that impression incorrect? If it's supposed to be confidential, how can it be that anyone who searches on Findmypast and orders a certificate can learn who the birth parents were?

And if Elsie Rose Butler is the birth mother who gave him up for adoption, what is the connection of Millicent Porkess, who according to Findmypast is the birth mother? And why is Arnold Butler listed as the father?

Perhaps I should find another hobby, or buy a hairpiece.

Thanks again.
Dave

Thanks again.

To answer Gerry's question, yes it is possible to search through Butler/Porkess births on Findmypast, but "trawl" is not the right word. There is only one such birth in the database, and it is xxxxx Butler, 1944.

Since I've now learned from Penny that the mother on the birth certificate is the birth mother, my theory now is that the Butler-Porkess marriage was childless and that they adopted Xxxxx in 1944 after he was born to Elsie Rose Butler. It appears that Elsie never married, which would explain the adoption.

As for both the birth mother and the adoptive family being Butlers, I can only surmise that that there was a family relationship of some kind that I have yet to find.

It certainly appears that Arnold Butler and Millicent Porkess had no other children, and the adoption didn't occur until they had been married for 14 years. Perhaps they were desperate for an heir.

Since there is every likelihood that xxxxx Butler, who would now be a mere stripling of 66, is still alive, does anyone have any idea how I might start looking for him?

Thanks again for the helpful suggestions.

Dave

David,

If you are assuming that David was adopted by Arnold and Millicent because of the Findmypast result, you are mistaken.

There's a software error on Findmypast's site. The null value for the mother's maiden name is causing problems.

You can enter any name in the "Mother's maiden name" field and David Butler is always returned.

Rose

Thanks to all, especially Rose, who seems to have found the answer.
It appears to be a computer glitch.
Dave