Genealogy Chat

I've been looking for a death certificate for someone for a number of years. Sent off for one a number of years ago which I now know definitely isn't the person I'm looking for.

The thing is, I was just searching for the death again on the death index and the exact name comes up again, in the same place, the same name but there are 2 entries.

It's a fairly common name - do you think it's a mistake and a duplicate entry (it's the death cert that I'd already sent off for) or do you think there's a small chance that it's a coincidence & that two people of the same name and age have died in the same year & quarter? It's even the same page.

I think it's the same person but a second opinion would be extremely welcome.

Is it typed in exactly the same way eg both surnames spelt exactly the same and both in lower case or both it upper case? Forenames spelt and typed exactly the same way?

Can you give us the ref to look at it or do you prefer not to put the details on the boards??

Click on the image - there often is just one entry there, although FreeBMD show 2.

I don't get why, but every month FreeBMD send me approval notices of corrections I've subm'd, like:

The details of the accepted correction(s) are

Reference is: 2010-09-0830
Submitted on: 2010-09-08 08:57:14
EventYearQuarter Deaths 1853 Dec
Ashworth,Jane,,Rochdale,8e,_
Still exists but the entry below will take precedence over it when the
database is searched
Ashworth,Jane,,Rochdale,8e,23

I don't know why the old entry still exists, but apparently it does, so there's 2 entries in FreeBMD referring to the same unique entry in the index - go figure. Thru 1915, Ancestry use FreeBMDs transcriptions.

are the page and vol number the same or diffrent

if diffrent i would say its not the same person

When a correction has been made on freebmd, the person who submitted the correction receives a message as mgnv shows. But if some one searches the database only the corrected record is shown. (at least it was in the one I did)

Hello Ann :)

It's all exactly the same just a few lines apart on the original index

1911 Oct-Dec

Joseph Wood aged 68 W. Derby 8b 507 (both of them)

Jax just looked him up on the 1911 census for me on the records board. We already ordered the cert a number of years ago and Jax proved (which we suspected) he wasn't our family as the census says he was born in Northwich.

I'm just trying to find our Joseph and I don't want to ignore the duplicate entry if there is another certificate there that we haven't looked at.

I have no idea when he died (presumably after 1901 as his wife wasn't a widow) and where he died. He was a mariner so there is the possibility he died elsewhere.

Edit: For reference - this is my thread re 1911 census lookup (which confirms this Joseph wasn't my family so we can rule him out)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/records_office/thread/1251997

Thanks everyone - It's not free bmd. It's from the original index page (I must have missed it the first time I looked about 10 years ago).

I can't believe I still haven't found his or his wife's death 10 years on.

Edit: I'm looking for Joseph Wood(s) born 1842 in Liverpool.

mmm - wonder if the registrar compiling the index mistakenly submitted the same record twice - it has been known. Due to there being several joseph wood's in the same qtr it does not even show as a 'out of seq' even though the entries are separated by 2 other people

Thanks Ann, I think that may be a possibility. Also if there had been 2 certs, I would have thought that the GRO may have picked this up 10 years ago when they sent the certificate.

which census did you last find him on and where to narrow it down a bit?

Hello Ann again :)

The last census we found him on was the 1891 census as a mariner with his family aged 48. This was in Liverpool. We found his wife Ellen aged 54 in 1901 at 21 Walker Street, West Derby, Liverpool, still listed as married and not a widow. His son married in 1902 and he wasn't listed as deceased on the certificate (which I know doesn't really mean he was alive). However, there were tales that some of his grandchildren remembered him coming home from sea which suggest he did live past 1901.

I haven't found him for definite on the 1911 census. I have found someone in an institution as an able bodied seaman which may be him but I'm not sure. As I haven't got access to the 1911 census and it's quite expensive to freely search the 1911 census site I haven't browsed the records like I do on Ancestry.

His wife Ellen was born around 1847 in Liverpool. Again, there's someone on the 1911 census who was married but not with her husband which may be her but it could be anyone.

The name changed from Woods to Wood so they could be listed under either.

There are two death entries for my gt grandmother in 1910 although the first name is different one in the name of Ellen and the other in the name of Eleanor both have the same numbers. I cannot understand why they would have bothered to register it twice as she is only recorded as Eleanor on her birth reg in 1845 and in the 1851 census otherwise she has been known as Ellen even when she married.

As he was a seaman could he have died at sea? my partners gt grandfather was also from that area in Liverpool and I have never found his death which would have been in the early part of the 1900s but his wife remarried as a widow he was also a seaman and he had a quite an unusual surname so I thought it would be easy to find also two of his sons were in a seamans orphan institution in 1911 when their mother was still alive and living with their youngest brother, new husband is'nt with her so I expect she married another seaman.

jax

Is this the one you found?
1911 census - household transcription
Person: WOODS, Ellen
Address: 16 Nursery Street Liverpool N

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WOODS, Ellen Wife Married
46 years F 64 1847 Charwoman Liverpool Lancashire VIEW

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Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%)
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Brereton Ellen W. Derby 8b 744
Wood Joseph W Derby 8b 744

or this one living with a load of other women

.1911 census - household transcription
Person: WOODS, Ellen
Address: 44a 46 a Everton Brow Everton Liverpool


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.WOODS, Ellen Lodger Widow F 62 1849 Charwoman Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
.

and the Joseph you found

1911 census - household transcription
Person: WOODS, Joseph
Institution: Test House West Derby Union, TEST HOUSE, WEST DERBY UNION, BELMONT ROAD


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WOODS, Joseph Inmate Widower M 68 1843 Formerly A B Seaman Liverpool Lanc VIEW

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Hello Jax :)

Thank you again so much for checking for me. Yes that's the right marriage.

I've got the 1911 census for the Joseph born 1843 which may be mine. Someone who shares the same relative as us is not 100% convinced it is him as it doesn't say boat captain but to be honest it hasn't said that on a census yet (only marriage certificates) and we don't know how he replied to the question.

As you say, he could have been at sea on the census and even died there.

I have the census record for Ellen in Mersey Street (I presume it's the one that you have that says Nursery Street - It looks like Nursery and Mersey so I'm not sure- I'll have to check that out)

I haven't got the one for Everton Brow though. I must have missed that one.

Thanks for that.

Just wondering whether anyone has any more tips or can give any more help on finding death certificates for Ellen or Joseph? Many thanks

have you checked for possible wills?

Yes Ann, it was many years ago. I ordered the will of the 1911 death which made me suspect it wasn't the right one but I wasn't sure until jax found the census record.

I may try again although I don't think there was anything to leave.

Thanks for the tip Ann :)