Genealogy Chat

My Gt Grandfather's brother, Isaac Allen b1778 Duffield Derbyshire dcd 1853 Belper Derbyshire, married to Mary Launder 1801.

Their children are: Hannah 1805, Elisa 1807, Samuel 1810, Susannah 1813, Benjamin 1816, Thomas 1819, Isaac 1823. All Duffield or Belper.

I have searched on Ancestry for both of them in the 1841 and 1851 with no success. I have looked at Allen/Allan/Alline/Alleyne and All***.

Anyone got any ideas pleas?

there is this one on fmp
he was not born in Norfolk
1841

Where Born Original
census
image

KING, Samuel M 46 1795 Norfolk VIEW
SMITH, James M 54 1787 VIEW
MILLS, George M 31 1810 Norfolk VIEW
SELF, Thomas M 14 1827 Norfolk VIEW
BRANCH, John M 59 1782 Norfolk VIEW
SCOTT, John M 61 1780 Norfolk VIEW
ALLEN, Isaac M 63 1778 VIEW
EMMS, Jonathan M 41 1800 Norfolk VIEW
BAGSTAFF, Henry M 49 1792 Norfolk VIEW
BRADY, William M 59 1782 Norfolk VIEW
FULCHER, William M 59 1782 Norfolk VIEW
LINCOLN, Zacheria M 39 1802 Norfolk VIEW
OSTLER, John M 33 1808 Norfolk VIEW
SALMON, Richard M 68 1773 Norfolk VIEW
WINTER, James M 71 1770 Norfolk VIEW
BROWN, William M 52 1789 Norfolk VIEW
GEORGE, Robert M 36 1805 Norfolk VIEW
OFFLEY, Robert M 46 1795 Norfolk VIEW
GREY, Elijah M 33 1808 Norfolk VIEW
HUBBARD, Nicholas M 36 1805 Norfolk VIEW
PRATT, George M 41 1800 Norfolk VIEW
SIMPSON, Benjamin M 27 1814 Norfolk VIEW
HAWES, John M 61 1780 Norfolk VIEW
SPRATT, William M 33 1808 Norfolk VIEW
LAWES, Charles M 57 1784 Norfolk VIEW
TITTON, William M 51 1790 Norfolk VIEW
HARVEY, John M 44 1797 Norfolk VIEW
CREED, James M 41 1800 Norfolk VIEW
RUDD, John M 31 1810 Norfolk VIEW
FOYSON, Henry M 20 1821 Norfolk VIEW
HIND, John M 33 1808 Norfolk VIEW
BACON, Peter M 55 1786 Norfolk VIEW
JONES, Robert M 40 1801 Norfolk VIEW
RUSSELL, James M 53 1788 Norfolk VIEW
LANKESTER, Mary F 44 1797 VIEW
SIMMONS, Maria F 26 1815 Norfolk VIEW
BREESE, Mary F 25 1816 Norfolk VIEW
MILLER, Ann F 34 1807 Norfolk VIEW
GEDGE, Ann F 18 1823 Norfolk VIEW
TYE, Mary F 73 1768 Norfolk VIEW
WOODS, Hannah F 58 1783 Norfolk VIEW
KING, Elizabeth F 58 1783 Norfolk VIEW
PARISH, Sarah F 59 1782 Norfolk VIEW
STOMTLING, Elizabeth F 63 1778 Norfolk VIEW
NOCKOLDS, Susan F 70 1771 Norfolk VIEW
FLINT, Elizabeth F 44 1797 Norfolk VIEW
THORNTON, Susan F 38 1803 Norfolk VIEW
WHITE, Mary F 52 1789 VIEW
GIRLING, Mary F 46 1795 Norfolk VIEW
ELDRED, Mary F 61 1780 Norfolk VIEW
GEDGE, Esther F 65 1776 Norfolk VIEW
SMITH, Hannah F 42 1799 Norfolk VIEW
DURRANT, Elizabeth F 54 1787 Norfolk VIEW
GIDNEY, Ann F 66 1775 Norfolk VIEW
LENNEY, Sarah F 36 1805 Norfolk VIEW
BLANSBY, Mary Ann F 41 1800 Norfolk VIEW
COPSIE, Mary Ann F 51 1790 Norfolk VIEW
KINGDON, Jane F 33 1808 Norfolk VIEW
SMYTH, Ann F 47 1794 Norfolk VIEW
SIMPSON, Margeret F 57 1784 Norfolk VIEW
COOK, Letitia F 45 1796 Norfolk VIEW
SCOTT, Elizabeth F 30 1811 Norfolk VIEW
ELBY, Susan F 44 1797 Norfolk VIEW
FOX, Easther F 52 1789 Norfolk VIEW
RONNEL, Elizabeth F 24 1817 Norfolk VIEW
COOPER, Elizabeth F 27 1814 Norfolk VIEW
BEARE, Louisa F 52 1789 Norfolk VIEW
HUBBARD, Sarah F 49 1792 Norfolk VIEW
SMITH, Mary F 26 1815 Norfolk VIEW
GAZE, Maria F 55 1786 Norfolk VIEW
REEVE, Susan F 72 1769 Norfolk VIEW
SHARPE, Hannah F 71 1770 Norfolk VIEW
SMITH, Chart Mary F 42 1799 Norfolk VIEW
WILDE, Martha F 57 1784 Norfolk VIEW
SPARKHALL, Deborah F 31 1810 Norfolk VIEW
PHILLIPS, Susan F 36 1805 Norfolk VIEW
GILL, Mary F 43 1798 Norfolk VIEW
HAGON, Esther F 54 1787 Norfolk VIEW
DREWRY, Hannah F 46 1795 Norfolk VIEW
ALDIS, Elizabeth F 51 1790 Norfolk VIEW
CHAMBERLAYNE, Elizabeth F 51 1790 Norfolk VIEW
RG number:
HO107 Piece:
790 Book/Folio:
26 Page:
1

Registration District:
Norwich Sub District:
Mancroft Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:

Civil Parish:
St Peter Mancroft Municipal Borough:
Norwich Address:
The Bethel, St Peter Mancroft, Norwich County:
Norfolk

Thanks Maddie, I will look at that one.

I suppose anything is possible, seems strange though that 2 years later he died in Belper. I don't have the death cert as yet. Census says he is a teacher. Wonder if he was still there in 1851. Will have to look.

I have just found son Benjamin but he is married so thatw as not any help.

Could be wrong,but I have a feeling that the 1853 death is this one:

Parish Records Collection - burial

First name(s): Isaac

Last name: ALLEN

Date of burial: 19 Apr 1853

Age at death: 6 Weeks

Calculated year of birth: 1853

Place of burial: Heage

Dedication: St Luke

County: Derbyshire

Notes:
Heage St Luke:

Denomination: Anglican

Coverage: 1847 - 1905

Number of entries: 2,791

Record source: National Burial Index

I don't see one for an older Isaac,but I'll keep looking.

Maureen

This is the Free BMD death, but of course it doesn't give the age.

Isaac Allen
Year of Registration: 1853
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Belper
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b

I googled The bethel Norwich and it appears to have been a lunatic asylum so I hope it is not the right one

Maddie

Oops, so do !!! But anything is possible I suppose, especially as I can't find him in 1851 in Derbyshire.

Back later.

Is Maureen not likely right about the 1853 death?

Isaac Allen 1778 likely died after 1823 and before 1841.

Of the children you listed, do you know which survived to 1841?

1841 - son Isaac

Name: Isaac Allen
Age: 15 (rounded down)
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Where born: Derbyshire, England
Registration district: Belper
(male servant on farm of George Jackson)

Civil Parish: Duffield
Hundred: Appletree
County/Island: Derbyshire

Joseph Kirkland 20
Isaac Allen 15
George Richardson 11
Melicent Winson 14


Benjamin is also in Duffield, Ag Lab, in 1841.

Janey. If it wasn't for the fact that the Isaac Allen Maureen found was only 6 weeks old I would say yes she could be right. My first thoughts were that he'd died before 1841. then I saw the later death. Hmm may have to send for the cert although don't want to as he is not in my direct line.

But if the 1853 death that Maureen found is the same one I found then where is my Isaacs death. Could it make a difference that theyw ere non conformists? (Methodist/primitive methodist seeming to be the chosen church for Christenings.

I found Benjamine age 25 and he is married, no others living with him. Not found the others yet. May have more time later today to look.

Oh just noticed, thanks Janey you found young Isaac.

Thank you for the help so far everyone,much appreciated.

What I and Maureen are saying: there is only one Isaac Allen death registered in 1853. The index doesn't give the age. Maureen found the matching parish register. The Isaac Allen in question was an infant.

You assumed that it was your Isaac Allen based only on the name and location? but it seems it wasn't. The death certificate would say -- ages weren't generally recorded in that era, but for an infant it almost always gives that info and names the parents.

If your Isaac Allen died before 1837, his death wasn't registered because there was no registration. It's even possible he died after 1837 and it wasn't registered.

He definitely isn't in Duffield (where the sons are) in 1841 or 1851 though -- I searched for any Isa*c (I have an Isaac various spelled Isac and Isaic), and any Al*n, in Duffield, in both years. Also couldn't find wife Mary.

It seems most likely (and I'd say virtually certain) that he died between 1823 and 1837. Wife Mary might have remarried, of course.

I'm not hugely familiar with pre-1837 records for non-conformists. But not being able to find evidence of a burial on line never means there wasn't one. ;)

Thanks again for your help Janey. And Maureen of course.

Possibly a child of Samuel 1810?

Name: Alfred Allen
Event Type: Baptism
Christening Date: 05 Jan 1834
Christening Place: Duffield, Derbyshire
Father's Name: Samuel Allen
Mother's Name: Eliza Allen
Record Set: RG4_0863
Collection: England and Wales, Non-Conformist Record Indexes (RG4-8)

Yes thanks, that sounds possible. Will make a note of him.