Genealogy Chat

I belive MS and FS were only used on the 1841 census.

Chantler and Ball, sounds like a comedy duo.

Maybe the precursors to Cannon and Ball.

Maybe they were comedy witnesses in funny outfits? :-D

FYI - it looks like I Chantler & Benj'n Ball were professional witnesses.
In the preceding week there were 29 marrs. I Chantler was a witness on 27; Benj'n Ball a witness on 15 (14 with IC) and only one marr had neither.

Thanks Ozi!

thank you Ann, I may decide to stick around . ;-)

Thanks too for the info about Betsy Gorton, could you please cast your skillful eyes over my Request in the Find Ancestors page, to help me pin down my Gx3 grandad?

I need to be sure i have the right John Morris and his details in 1841 and 1851 have several holes in them.

If I can be sure that John Morris in 1841 and 1851 are the same, it will be a great big step for me. But probably best continue this on the other thread before i get into trouble here for mixing threads up!

Thanks again Ann.

possible death for 1st Elizabeth?

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1841
Surname Forename(s) Age Sub-District Registers At Reference
MORRIS Elizabeth 36 Market Street Manchester MST/10/250

Elizabeth had also previously been married - maiden name Ainsworth

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MORRIS * John AINSWORTH Elizabeth Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church) Manchester CATH/86/488
MORRIS * John GORTON Elizabeth Manchester Cathedral (formerly Manchester Collegiate Church) Manchester CATH/86/488

Joe, it's a pity you're not renewing your membership. It seems to me you've only just got started and you've done so well.

Yes, there are a lot of 'impersonators'. Our ancestors were much more conservative with naming their children than we are. However I have found it is a help at times in following a branch of a family. Especially if they use the odd surname as a second name for a child.

Good luck with your future research.

Ozi

Thanks Margee, I'm not even sure I have the right John now, there seem to be several impersonators on the scene. :-(

oops, sorry, I just thought of it as a separate issue, sorry, I can copy and paste it over to the other one if you like?

It's hard to tell on the original of that 51 census whether John is married or a widower but the fact that Betsy is listed after the chidren means she's not a family member.

naughty Joe, please keep it all on the one thread !

right, found a marriage for John Morris and Elizabeth Gorton in Dec. 1851.

So it must be that his first wife Elizabeth Bradshaw left or died...and he re-married.

This is very bizarre and I hope you might be able to advise me on what could be happening.

I am pretty sure I have found the marriage for my GX4 grandad -

Marriage: 29 Aug 1814 Collegiate, Manchester, Lancashire, England
John Morris - (X), Cordwainer Batchelor of this Parish and Town of Manchester
Elizabeth Bradshaw - (X), Spinster of this Parish and Town of Manchester
Witness: I Chantler; Benj'n Ball
Married by Banns by: C.D. Wray
Register: Marriages 1814, Page 343, Entry 1027
Source: LDS Film 1545577


Now, in the 1841 census she is listed as Betsy Morris, a common short name for Elizabeth. It was this name, the dates and their ages, and his job as Cordwainer, which helped me feel sure I had the right marriage here.

But, by the 1851 census, there is John Morris and the same children and their ages and dates fit, , but the woman Betsy now has the surname Gorton :-\ and she is now listed as "House Servant".

What could be going on here?

Is it possible they divorced and are now living under different names?
Is it possible they separated between 1841 and she married a man called Gorton , but then came back to live with John Morris ??

Or, by sheer co-incidence, did the old Betsy Morris leave or die, only to be replaced by a House Servant of exactly the same age and first name??

Hope you can enlighten! :-)