Genealogy Chat

I wonder if someone could help me with this please.

Would the father of an illegitimate child have to be present when the child was registered, in order to be named on the birth certificate?

Or could anyone just name a father and the Registrar would accept that as fact?

This relates to a birth cert from 1845.

Thank you.

Yes, he would, as is the same today, although I think it might have been rare in 1848.

Have a look here for lots of info on certs

http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/indexbd.htm

The mother didn't have to produce a marriage certificate, so presumably if she stated she was married, there was no way for the Registrar to prove otherwise! It probably depended on how well she could carry it off, how the questions were framed, and how she interpreted them.

I've never seen a BC where the father (not married to nor living with the mother) has registered the birth, so am unsure how that would be recorded. If he said they weren't married, I'd suspect that the child would be registered with the mothers name and details only.

The information on the site link given by IGP implies that in 1840s it would have been down to the individual registrar as to whether or not the father was named.
The wording was ambiguous so until the ruling was tightened up, it is possible that in 1845 a father of an illegitimate child may have not been present, but still be named.

Gwyn

Thank you InspectorGreenPen,+++DetEcTive+++ & Gwyn.

I found the relevant passage in the link you provided IPG and, as Gwyn says, it seems to have depended on the individual registrar........


"The early registrations between 1837 and approximately 1850 are a little mixed. The Act of Parliament of 1836 reads "And it be enacted that the father or mother of every child born in England................shall within 42 days next after the day of every such birth give information upon being requested so to do to the Registrar, according to the best of his or her knowledge and belief of the several particulars hereby required to be known and registered touching the birth of such child provided always that it shall not be necessary to register the name of any father of a bastard child."

Now some registrars interpreted that quite freely and put father in even where the couple were not married and only mother or someone else was signing the register and some did not allow fathers details to be entered in the register. By about 1850 the situation had been clarified and the instructions read quite clearly "No putative father is to be allowed to sign an entry in the character of "Father" ". From that time, therefore there are 2 kinds of entries in the register

(1) Where the parents were married to one another, fathers details must be entered in the register and only one parent will sign the register (or some other informant)

(2) Where the parents were not married to one another there will be blanks in Column 4 (fathers name) and Column 6 (his occupation)."


This is how it is worded on the birth certificate......

Born on the 9th December 1845 at Horrocks Fold, Little Bolton.
Birth registered 15 December 1845 at Bolton.
Name: Guest
Father: John Nicholson - Bleacher
Mother: Ellen Guest
Informant: William Guest - occupier of Horrocks Fold.


Ellen Guest died when Guest Guest was 9 months old. He was raised by his grandparents and aunts.

I've never been able to find a baptism for him. He married in a register office and father's name and occupation was left blank on his marriage cert.

So whether John Nicholson was his father, or not, he must never have been told.

he might have known, and just chosen not to name him when he married, so as not to disclose the fact that he was illegitimate ... yes, not naming a father sort of amounts to the same thing, but doesn't quite spell it out :-)

have you checked out John Nicholsons ?

1841

Name: John Nicholson
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton Le Moors
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Little Bolton

Nathl Nicholson 40
Ann Nicholson 40
William Nicholson 15
John Nicholson 15
Ester Nicholson 12
Nathl Nicholson 10
Ann Nicholson 7
Mary Ann Nicholson 5
Thos Nicholson 3


he is a Finishing Bleacher :-)


is this Ellen ?

Name: Elen Guest
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1823
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bolton Le Moors
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Bolton
Sub-registration district: Sharples

William Guest 50
Mary Guest 44
Thomas Guest 20
Elen Guest 18
Rachael Guest 17
John Guest 14
Hannah Guest 13
George Guest 9
Gennet Guest 6
Grace Guest 3

living at High House in district 5 Sharples, that John Nicholson is at Spring Field in district 7, Little Bolton

Ellen above is a Hooker :-D

Thanks chrissiex.

Never thought about him choosing not to name his father, just assumed he never knew.

I have seen that 1841 census for the Nicholsons, but couldn't find a match for John after that.

Yes, that is Ellen and family in 1841.

HOOKER!! I missed that. You really made me laugh out loud.

Thank goodness it didn't have the same meaning then as now. :-D

I have a copy of a birth certificate for an illegitimate child born in 1882.

The father is not named in the appropriate column, BUT the informant was shown with the qualification, - father.
When the child married however, the father of the bride has 'unknown' in the column about father's details, even though Florence is part of his family, - and daughter, in 1891 census and uses his surname in 1901, when she is working away from home.

Each marriage is logged according to knowledge and the then present conditions / conflicts within the family, I guess.

Gwyn