Genealogy Chat

Hello all,

this has probably been asked before by somone. Apart from the 1901 & 1911 census are there any other earlier Irish census records available anywhere?

My McWILLIAMS family was living in Tullow, Carlow in the 1800's. I have found church records online for the family. Robert McWILLIAMS married Anne HURLEY & had quite a few children baptised in Tullow.

I am unable to get any further back & I suspect that Robert was not originally from Carlow as this is the only McWILLIAMS family that appears in the Carlow church records & the majority of McWILLIAMS' seem to come from the far northern counties (Antrim etc) or Dublin.

If there are older census records they should have the place of birth on them which would be a great help...

Thanks for any help in advance.

Tony McWilliams

I'm pretty sure that's all there is census-wise.

History of Irish census records

The original census returns for 1861 and 1871 were destroyed shortly after the censuses were taken.

Those for 1881 and 1891 were pulped during the First World War, probably because of the paper shortage.

The returns for 1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851 were, apart from a few survivals, notably for a few counties for 1821 and 1831, destroyed in 1922 in the fire at the Public Record Office at the beginning of the Civil War.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/help/history.html

There are fragments for certain areas that can be found by googling. I would suggest subscribing (free) to the rootsweb mailing list for the area, and I shall bring forward a very useful thread about Irish ancestral research.
Happy hunting :-)

Thank you for the prompt reply. Very interesting reading.

Well it looks like I won't get any further back with my Irish research sadly. When Robert married a witness was a William McWILLIAMS but whether he was a brother, cousin, his father etc I don't think I'll ever find out.

We can be very thankful that the UK census records have survived :-)

Having said that, the thread has disappeared again. I shall ask for it to be restored again unless anyone can find it.

Some reading for you in the meantime :) - http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-census.html

Thanks, I shall have a read of that.

You're welcome; and I shall ask Phil to find the useful thread again. When it returns it is:


Genealogy Chat : INFORMATION ONLY for those Searching for IRISH Gen
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/genealogy_chat/thread/951721

Thanks KIMM. I'll have a browse through those records too.

Anthony
Have you any dates for Robert and Ann ?
Are they related to your Birkenhead McWilliams...
Have located a few Mc.W. But all pre.1850s and not RC.
What ere the father,s names on the MC ?

Tony....Have located a Robert McWilliams listed as renting land from a Chas Doyne...Griffiths Val 1852.
Address:

Mill St.
Tullowphelim
Rathvilly (Barony)
Co.Carlow.

Hi, yes that's Robert & I believe that he was the father of John who emigrated to Birkenhead. I had found that Griffiths record too. I also found his marriage & burial & baptisms & burials of his children on the following website:-

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/

Tullow
Robert McWILLIAMS of this Parish & Anne HURLEY of this Parish were married in this church by banns this
22nd day of November in the year one thousand eight hundred and forty one by me George G CUTHBERT.
The marriage was solemnized in the presence of William McWILLIAMS & William HURLEY.

On the same page Robert was a witness to the marriage of Mary HURLEY, perhaps Anne's sister.

According to the baptism entries Robert was a 'Nailer'.

It looks as though his daughter Margaret married in 1872 in Tullow & his occupation was then Post Man &c. :-

She married Nicholas HOPKINS on 20th May 1872 in the Church of Tullow, Tullow, County Carlow, Ireland according to the Rites & Ceremonies of the Church of Ireland. Information from the marriage certificate:-
Margaret McWILLIAMS, of full age, spinster, a Servant, living in the Parish of Tullow, daughter of Robert McWILLIAMS, a Post-Man &c, married Nicholas HOPKINS, of full age, widower, a Cooper living in the Parish of Tullow, son of Ben HOPKINS, a Farmer.
The marriage was witnessed by John CARROLL & Richard MEREDITH.

My ggg-grandfather John McWILLIAMS put his birthplace on the 1911 census (inmate in Birkenhead workhouse together with his wfe Catherine) as Tulla, Carlow.

John married Catherine FITZSIMMONS on 26th April 1875 at St. Mary’s Parish Church, Birkenhead, Cheshire. Information from the marriage certificate:-
John McWILLIAMS, aged 25, bachelor, a Labourer, living at 125 Oliver Street, Birkenhead, Cheshire, son of Robert McWILLIAMS, Postman, married Catherine FITZSIMMONS, aged 26, spinster, living at 10 Cleveland Street, Birkenhead, daughter of Patrick FITZSIMMONS, Stonemason.
The marriage was witnessed by Michael MANGIN & Susan YOUNG.

So I believe that John was probably Robert's son John Henry born 11th August 1848 & baptised 8th October 1848 in Tullow.
He probably arrived in Birkenhead in the mid 1870's as he can't be found on the 1871 census.

Robert being a postman as well as a Nailer appears to be confirmed by the following. Robert was appointed as a Postman on 9th October 1858 for the route Tullow to Coolkenna (found on the Ancestry website).

I don't have any Irish birth or death certificates nor Robert's marriage certificate as I don't know how to find the information required to order them. In the UK you need the year, quarter, name, district, volume & page & I assume that something similar would be required for the Irish certificates & I only have the names, dates & that the occurances were in Tullow.

It would be interesting to know whether William, the witness at Robert's marriage was his father.