Genealogy Chat

Since 1994 when I first started my family tree, I have purchased in excess of 250 GRO certificates, 50 of which turned out to be erroneous (on my part) and therefore completely useless to me. In today’s money that equates to over £2,300 – quite a lot of money by anyone’s standards.

As a result, I have a family tree that I know is as accurate as it can be and would stand up even in a court of law. The reason being, that all certificates are certified by the General Registrar. Each certificate is printed on good quality paper with a lovely GRO watermark. It has a unique serial number and application number and date the copy was issued, the seal of the GRO and the initials of the person at the GRO checking the certificate. In other words, Great British bureaucracy at its best. For all the work that goes into it, £9.25 seems almost a bargain.

Why on earth do we have to have such a magnificent document when all that most of us want is the snippet of information photocopied into the centre of the certificate?

Those of you that have done research in Ireland will know that the GROI in Dublin offers a fantastic facility whereby you can order a copy printed on plain paper (in fact you can get three entries on one side of plain A4 paper thus helping to save the planet) for about £3.00 (depending on the exchange rate of the Euro).

This represents a saving of over 65% on what it costs in England.

It seems to me that the GRO are insisting that all copies are issued as certified in order to justify the price tag.

Rant over.

I find this explanation helpful.


"The original registrations are required by law[15] to be issued in the form of certified copies to any person who identifies an index entry and pays the prescribed fee. They can be ordered by registered users from the General Register Office Certificate Ordering Service or by postal or telephone ordering from the General Register Office or by post or in person from local registrars."


Much as it would be wonderful to be able to obtain cheap certificates, there are obviously the legalities to consider - I am happy to go with the current price and only purchase as and when I can afford it.


Cx.

The problem was well discussed in this thread.
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1287871

There is also an on-line petition.

Would just like to point out that the copies of certs from the GRO are third hand.

I have copies from the parish registers which are signed by the bride & groom and the witnesses.......all original. And these for about £1.

Cynthia - I think you have it in a nutshell; "....and only purchase as and when I can afford it". Isn't it a shame that people (myself included) are restricted on the number of certificate they purchase by the cost.

KenSE - Thanks for pointing out that thread - very interesting, especially the points raised by BrummieJan. If the GRO reduced the cost of certificates and supplied them on plain paper (thus reducing their overheads and increasing their profit margin) more people would buy more certificates and everyone would be happy.

MR_MAGOO - Nice when you can do it but the cost of travelling to county records officies is also becomming prohibitive.

If only all this stuff was on-line. Sorry, I''ve already had a rant about that !!

Whilst agreeing that it would be great for genealogists or family historians if copies of BMD certificates cost less than they currently do it must be remembered that civil registration was not established so that such people could verify their ancestors pasts for minimal financial outlay.

As Cynthia has mentioned, copies of original certificates are required by current law to be "Certified", hence mechanisms such as watermarked paper, unique serial number, GRO seal ect.

Over recent past years there have been abuses perpetrated by the misuse of copy certificates which has seen the GRO find it necessary to impose restrictions on certificate issue without certain proofs (exact birth date ect) being first provided. Unfortunately any relaxation of the current legislation including providing plain paper copies rather than "Certified" copies might lead to further abuses. Let us face it, with the current availability of computers and computer printers it would not be that difficult for unscrupulous individuals to produce their own versions of copy certificates.

Slartibartfast, In your opening post you refer to the fact that you have purchased in excess of 250 certificates and that 50 were in your terminology, "Erroneous". May I just point out that those 50 certificates were not erroneous. They were supplied to you because presumably you had ordered the wrong certificate. Had they been sent to you printed upon plain paper instead of in the form of a certified copy, whilst your mistakes may have cost you less they would still have been the wrong certificate.

Jonesey - Yes, they were erroneous on my part - badly worded.
What I don't understand is why it can be done in Ireland and not in the UK.
We were all ruled by the same government when the GRO statred. I can see the point of some security regarding certificates relating to living individuals but do we really need a certified copy when applying for Gt Gt Gt Gt Aunt Betty's marriage certificate in 1845?

It does say on all certificates "Warning: A Certicate Is Not Evidence Of Identity" - Surely that negates the whole notion of having certified copies. If a birth certificate is not evidence of your identity, what is?
Actually I know the answer to this as I raised it with the Registrar General. A certificate is to be used with other documents to provide evidence of one's identity. You only need to provide a birth certificate to get a passport or driving licence. And when you have got those, you can get a bank account. And with all that you can hopefully prove who you are!

A PROJECT CALLED
DOVE WHICH ALLOWED YOU TO VIEW
CERTS AND PRINT AT HOME WAS ABANDONED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO AFTER A LOT OF MONEY WAS ALLREADY SPENT

DIZZI - Just looked up Project Dove. How good would that have been. Mother's maiden name on all birth indexes, not just those from 1911 and age at death on all death certificates. And onced digitised, the Internet.

Good article about the GRO certificates;

http://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters/midjan12news.htm

THE DOVE PROJECT WOULD HAVE BEEN PERFECT BEING ABLE TO PRINT YOURSELF , THEY SPENT A LOT OF MONEY BEFORE CANCELING IT

Sorry folks but I prefer to have certificates in their current form. There is so much information that can be gleaned from a certificate, not just the "bit in the middle". For example, on a marriage certificate, the names of the witnesses can provide links to other family members - the parents of the bride and/or groom were not always the people who signed the register.

Digitalised records are often more difficult to read and I have come across transcripts of documents where the information is incorrect - due to human error in the transcription.

However, I do agree that the GRO certificate charges are too high.

Just a thought Slartifartbast: have you posted your unwanted certificates on BMDShare?

Nannylicious - Yes, the witnesses are important on a marriage certificate. They are on the 'bit in the middle' I was refering to. I agree that transcripts can contain errors, but when looking at a digitised copy of a certificate you always have the option to enlarge if you can't work out a particular name.

And yes, I do post stuff on BMDShare. Not just unwanted one's too.

I've just been onto a site run by the Irish Government and downloaded a copy of an 1851 marriage cert. cost absolutely nothing. How good is that?