Genealogy Chat

Just noticed my type error on the comment left on the 1st Feb....It should have read Rachel not Annie....!

Yvonne

Hi Potty - 1891 Census below, thanks for your help

David Pullman
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rachael Pullman
Gender: Male
Where born: Burnley, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Burnley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3360
Folio: 41
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
David Pullman 29
Rachael Pullman 27
Mary Pullman 9
Annie Pullman 2
John Pullman 1

Cheerio Yvonne

Yvonne, can you post the 1891 census with David married to an Annie. The only one I can find is the one posted above by Helen, with a wife Rachel.

I cannot find a marriage for a David Pulman between 1881 and 1891.

There are no births showing for the "Pulman" children.

There are possible births for Mary Whittaker in 1881 and a John Edwin in 1890, all in Burnley,

It certainly looks as if it is the same David Pulman on both censuses. have you tried looking for him and Rachel in 1911?

There is quite a big gap between Mary and Annie, so perhaps Rachel was married before and Mary is the child of that marriage? I think you need to get Annie's birth cert to confirm her mother's maiden name.

Okay...need to trow a few questions and ask your thoughts!

Ive been looking into the Rachel Whitham on the 1901 census and notice she has a boarder of a similar age! My initial thoughts was were they living in sin so i wrote down all the details and went back 10 years and found on the 1891 census there is a David Pulman married to an Annie Whittam, they have 3 children all of whom's names match the ones claiming to be rachels children in the 1901 census....now could this just be a coinsidence ? and finally should this not be a coinsidence why would she be stating herself as a widow in 1901 yet still have her husband/partner living with them!

The plot thickens......Am i looking too deep into this or does this, as i thought looked suspect?

Yvonne

1891 England Census about Rachael Pullman
Name: Rachael Pullman
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: David Pullman
Gender: Female
Where born: Burnley, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Burnley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3360
Folio: 41
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
David Pullman 29
Rachael Pullman 27
Mary Pullman 9
Annie Pullman 2
John Pullman 1

1871 England Census about Rachel Whitham
Name: Rachel Whitham
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard Whitham
Mother's name: Mary Whitham
Gender: Female
Where born: Colne, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Burnley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: Burnley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: Burnley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 2
Piece: 4147
Folio: 33
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Whitham 41
Mary Whitham 36
Maria Whitham 15
Rachel Whitham 7

This looks like Rachel with her parents

In my grandmother's case, she was born in the house where her mother and her grandparents lived in a village in Shropshire. The case was heard in the nearest county court which was Shrewsbury. The confusing thing in this case was that a father's name did appear on her marriage certificate but this was not her birth father. He was the man her mother married when my grandmother was three years old. Were it not for the bastardy order I'd found, we could have assumed, wrongly, that the man named on the marriage certificate was, indeed, her father. Incidentally, her real father was a well-known farmer and landowner in Ratlinghope, Shropshire. The family still owns land there. He was ordered by the courts to pay 2/6d every week towards my grandmother's upkeep until she was sixteen. I don't know if he ever told his wife about it!

Annie

Annie

Birth registered as Whittam:

Births Sep 1888 (>99%)

WHITTAM Annie Burnley 8e 238

Rachel in the 1901 is shown as a widow, born Colne.

Yvonne, Lancaster is in Lancashire, in fact it is the county town. Were you thinking of Lanchester?

1901 England Census about Annie Whitham
Name: Annie Whitham
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Rachel Whitham
Gender: Female
Where born: Burnley, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Burnley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Burnley
Sub-registration district: East Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 143
Piece: 3864
Folio: 38
Page Number: 21
Household Members:
Name Age
Rachel Whitham 37
Mary Whitham 19
Annie Whitham 12
John Edward Whitham 11
David Pulman 40

A possible

Wow, some fantastic info you have all left me thank you so much :)

Annie G - were the courts the ones local to where the child was born or where the mother was born, only ask as I know this made a differece in things like the Poor Law.

+++DetEcTive+++ - I will try and find a baptism record for her, hopefully there will be one!

Andrew - the details are as follows: Annie Whittam married John Mcardle 1908. Johns father was also called John Mcardle and states that he was a stonemason although he has deseaed by the time of marriage. The certificate says Lancaster was the registering district but I am wondering if it was actually lancashire as that was where they are showing in the 1911 census! Have the bounries changed since 1908!

Gosh I thought this would be so much easier than it is, How foolish was i! lol

Once again that you all for your great infomation and all your help
Yvonne

It may be worth checking court records - usually in record offices - for a bastardy order, as they were then called. My grandmother's birth certificate had a line through the space for father's name but we found him with a bastardy order issued by the court. It's also worth checking parish records. I don't know when you are talking about but, in the past, church officials could be very cruel and, if a father was not named, the baptism entry could read "bastard (or base) child of (mother's name), whore of this parish". Rather than have this, the mother would name the father. Of course, there's always an outside chance she could have made it up but that was unlikely because the church had a great deal of influence and mothers would have been afraid of being caught out lying.

Unfortunately, that normally means she was illegitimate. You’ll have to follow the female line by finding her on census with her mother, or finding her birth record.

Sometimes baptisms name a male as 'alledged father', so that's worth looking for.

If there is no father, then she was most likely born out of wedlock. Unless there is name on her birth cert, the chance of finding him are very slim.

If you want to post some details, then it might be possible to find them in census records.

Andy

Hi all, wonder if anyone can help! I am trying to research my great grandmothers parents. I have just received her marriage cert and against her fathers name and occupation is just a line!!!!!! Any suggestions on where to go from here?
Yvonne