Genealogy Chat

Hi Laurence, thank you for your reply. I think you are right and that I will never really know, but I am sure it was for one of the reasons you highighted. I won't worry about trying to find the answer now - as you say, it would probably be impossible.

best wishes :-)

Lynne. in the era that your ancestors married it was very common for employers to establish the religous affilations of prospective employees. Many employers discrminated against certain religions also against single people etc etc, there were many and varied reasons why people changed religions sometimes theses changes were basically paper excercises to suit the situation at the time for whatever reason.
Other reasons were where one party was of a different religion to the other party and opposition was seriously demonstrated by the relatives of one party to the marriage taking place in a church of a different denomination to their denomination.
I think it would be very difficult to establish the exact reason why a marriage was held in a church of another religion, unless the reason was passed down the generations, I suggest its almost impossible to establish the reason.

After your post I had a look at the internet. It seems that Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act did indeed restrict Non-Conformists and Catholics, who had to marry in Anglican churches. This restriction was lifted in 1836.

So I am really back to square one regarding why my folks were married in an Anglican church. I still hope to discover the reason - one day!

regards.

After your post I had a look at the internet. It seems that Lord Hardwicke's Marriage Act did indeed restrict Non-Conformists and Catholics, who had to marry in Anglican churches. This restriction was lifted in 1836.

So I am really back to square one regarding why my folks were married in an Anglican church. I still hope to discover the reason - one day!

regards.

Hi Laurence

Thank you for this information. Would that apply to 1870's too, as that was when James Collins and Martha Lynch were married at St Marks, Clerkenwell?

I was completely unaware of this and that would explain a lot!!! My great grandparents (James Collins/Mary Ann Blake) were married and registered in a Catholic chapel in 1898. So the ruling must have been changed by 1898.

I am most grateful to you for sharing that with me. Many thanks,
Lynne

Prior to 1840 something (if I recall correctly) Catholics were not allowed to marry in Catholic churches in England, therefore they had to marry in CoE churches for the marriage to be legally recorded. Today Catholic priests are not legally allowed to register marriages for state records so a registrar has to be in attendance to fill in the paper work.
Your ancestor was married in an Anglican church but that does not necessarily mean he/she were members of that religion.

I hope so too!

Come back to this thread when you get the certificate and let us know the details.

Yes, I noticed that too, so I am going to order Martha's birth certificate. Hope the Bloomsbury Martha we both found is the right one!

Thanks.
Lynne

Yes, it was just the 1841 census that rounded the ages.

If you order Martha's birth certificate it should show her mother's maiden name.

I just thought that the Donavon marriage was too late (unless Daniel married twice???) because there are children born before 1840????

The reason I mentioned about the Anglican/Catholic thing is that I can't find where any of the James Collins' (they were all called James) from right back were Catholic. So, I assumed the Catholicism came from Daniel and Martha.

BFN
Lynne

There is a person called Catherine Young that has been looking at Daniel Lynch's family.

I have messaged her for information and also asked if I could look at her tree. Unfortunately, she has not replied as yet although I hope she will.

best,
Lynne

Hi Lynski

Thank you so much for your very helpful information.

I think that the entries for Daniel and family (census 1851 and 1861) are the right ones. Martha was indeed born in 1842 in Bloomsbury/St Giles, although I haven't ordered the birth certificate yet. I do have Martha's marriage certificate to James Colllins (June 6, 1870) which states that her father Daniel was a plasterer.

My mother was a Collins and always told me that she had relatives called Lynch. I never queried on this. Now she has Alzheimer's and cannot remember. However, I found a book in her belongings with the name M. Lynch on the inside.

One puzzle is that the marriage certificate states that Martha and James Collins married at St. Mark's Clerkenwell. This is an Anglican church and my mother's family are Catholic. I would have thought Daniel Lynch would have been Catholic and his children also. Mystery.

I don't think the 'Lee' connection is the right one. I hope I am on the right track.

You are very good to inform me of the way they rounded the ages down in the census. Was it just the 1841 they did this?

Thanks Lynski, I appreciate your help. Anything else would help enormously.

Lynne :-)

1861 census -

LYNCH, Daniel Head Widower M 52 1809 Plasterer
Cork Ireland VIEW
LYNCH, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 26 1835 Book Folder
St Giles Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Martha Daughter Unmarried F 18 1843 Book App
St Giles Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Ellen Daughter F 11 1850 Scholar
St Soho Middlesex VIEW

Piece: 168 Folio: 73 Page: 75 Registration District: St Giles
Civil Parish: St Giles Municipal Borough:
Address: 22, Brownlow Street, St Giles, London County: London

?????????

Births Sep 1842 (>99%)
Lynch Martha Bloomsbury 1 71

The district Bloomsbury is an alternative name for St Giles and it spans the boundaries of the counties of London and Middlesex

You say that you are sure that Martha is your GG Grandmother? Have you worked your way back by getting all the certificates to actually prove she is???

1851 census -

LYNCH, Daniel Head Married M 41 1810 Plasterer Ireland VIEW
LYNCH, Catherine Wife Married F 38 1813 London VIEW
LYNCH, Mary Daughter Unmarried F 16 1835 London VIEW
LYNCH, James Son M 14 1837 Errand Boy London VIEW
LYNCH, Daniel Son M 11 1840 London VIEW
LYNCH, Martha Daughter F 9 1842 London VIEW
LYNCH, John Son M 6 1845 London VIEW
LYNCH, Ellen Daughter F 1 1850 London VIEW

Piece: 1510 Folio: 309 Page: 49 Registration District: Strand
Civil Parish: Saint Anne Municipal Borough: Westminster
Address: 3, Chapel Place, Saint Anne, Westminster County: Middlesex

If that is the right family, could this be the marriage and Hanna Lee is Catherine's mother or grandmother?????

groom's name: Daniel Lynch
bride's name: Catherine Lee
marriage date: 15 Jul 1827
marriage place: Saint Leonards,Shoreditch,London,England
indexing project (batch) number: M04080-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 405104, 405105, 405106, 405107, 405108, 405109

?????????
1841 census -



MARK, Geoe M 20 1821 VIEW
MARK, Margaret F 20 1821 Middlesex VIEW
MARK, Josp M 0 (8 months) 1841 Middlesex VIEW
MARK, Henry M 20 1821 Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Danl M 35 1806 Ireland VIEW
LYNCH, Catherine F 30 1811 Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Jno M 10 1831 Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, William M 5 1836 Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Thomas M 4 1837 Middlesex VIEW
LYNCH, Daniel M 2 1839 Middlesex VIEW
LEE, Hannah F 70 1771 Ireland VIEW
MACK, Rhd M 15 1826 Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
719 Book/Folio:
15/11 Page:
16 Registration District:
London

Civil Parish:
St Ann Blackfriars Municipal Borough:
London Address:
Water Lane, St Ann Blackfriars, London County:
Middlesex

Note:
In the 1841 Census a policy of rounding down ages was in place. As such, people aged:

•15-19 were recorded as 15
•20-24 were recorded as 20
•25-29 were recorded as 25
•30-34 were recorded as 30
•35-39 were recorded as 35...and so on



The marriage I posted might not be right based on the age of the children??

??????????

Marriages Dec 1840 (>99%)
DONOVAN Catherine St. Geo Southwk. 4 453
Lynch Daniel St Geo. Southk. 4 453

You have not given any dates?????