Genealogy Chat

I wonder if anyone can help me. My GG Grandfather seems to have married the same women twice in 1856. On free BMD and on Ancestry Edward Savage and Ann Kelton have entries in the 1st and 2nd quarters of that year.

Do I have to request 2 marriage cetificates?

regards Elaine :-S

Not sure what to say - I wonder if there was a problem with the first registration for some reason? My inclination would be to get the 2nd cert and see if the marriage date is earlier than you would expect.
Very strange!
Jan

maybe the first "marriage" wasn't .the marriage cert were filled out in the Church but the marriage didn't take place then but the cert got sent to the GRO by mistake . I would go for the second one .

how far in advance would banns have been posted?

Banns need to be read in the parish where each of you lives as well as the parish church in which you are to be married, if that is somewhere else. You must have your banns read out in church for three Sundays during the three months before the wedding. This is often done over three consecutive Sundays but does not have to be.

Thanks for suggestions, I think I will apply for the second one. Let you know what turns up.

This hobby is getting expensive and addictive! :-D

Marriages Mar 1856 (>99%)
Kelton Ann Downham 4b 661
Morton Sarah Downham 4b 661
Murfet Thomas Wrate Downham 4b 661
Savage Edward Downham 4b 661

Marriages Jun 1856 (>99%)
KELTON Ann Downham 4b 633
PETTET John Downham 4b 633
SAVAGE Edward Downham 4b 633
STEWARD Mary Downham 4b 633

I had a look at the 4 images, and there's no marginal notes or footnotes one typically sees with a reregistration, so I'm inclined to think there are actually two marrs - why I don't know.

Do you think this is a registration error?

Have you checked the 1861 census to see if you can find an Edward SAVAGE with any of the other wives?

As said, this may be an admin. problem, but if the names are not uncommon in the area, it could be that one of the marriages on the index has a different pairing of couples.

Gwyn

Was he in the Army ?

Sometimes the services needed proof that the marriage took place

That was my initial thought GB.

Even in recent years soldiers had to have the permission of their C.O. before marrying and often there have been cases recorded where a 2nd marriage ceremony took place once that permission had been granted, as the Army didn't always acknowledge the 1st ceremony.

Gwyn

Was one marriage Cof E & the other of another denomination, which sometimes happened with "mixed" marriages, to satisfy both parties?

as wisechild says - they could be because the couple married in both the (eg) RC and CofE churches. One could have been the end of march and the other the beginning of April. In a mixed marriage neither church considered the others marriage binding until the couple had been married in their own denomination which then produced 2 certificates and 2 entries in the marriage index. In each case the bride is described as a 'spinster'

this is an example from my own tree

Marriages Jun 1864 (>99%)
Cartwright Hannah Liverpool 8b 271
Cartwright Hannah Liverpool 8b 460

I had a " double " marriage..... when sent for 1 cert. was advised by GRO
of the 2nd. one so purchased both.

1st. in march 1892. registry office.
2nd. in may 1893 in Parish Church..

Different address for bride. & different witnesses.... Everything else exact copy of info. Still don't know reason though unless as was suggested. mixed religion marriage.

I shared an office with a Jehovah's Witness at one point, who would bring in the Watchtower. There was a thoughtful article in it about having one's marriage recognised for civil purposes and for religious purposes, and how a delay between the two might cause difficulties in one or other setting. I believe that this country is fairly unusual in delegating registration of marriages to clergy - in France the couple have to go to the mairie as well as to church, and it seems to be a similar system in Germany too.

Ivy - I'm not sure I agree with you. I don't know exactly what the situation in France is, but my impression was that as far as the state was concerned, only the marie can perform the actual marriage, and if the couple want to go thru some religious ceremony, that was up to them, and really nothing to do with marriage as far as the state was concerned.

In England, clergymen can perform valid marriages.

This is the situation in several English speaking countries, including Canada, Oz, Scotland and the USA. In all of these, clergymen are not the only people who can officiate at a marriage - many places have licienced performers of marriages, or maybe office holders entitled to perform marrs ex-officio. In most of these jurisdictions, it was the responsibility of the person officiating at a marr to register the marriage. It's really interesting to look at the cases where this isn't so.

It was the responsibility of the bride or groom in the following cases:
an "irregular" marr in Scotland;
a Doukhoborsti marr in Saskatchewan;
a marr officiated by the bride and/or groom in Colorado.

A "marriage by cohabitation and repute" (often termed a legal common-law marr) is not required to be registered in Colorado, but was in Scotland pre-2006 by the bride or groom.

hi mgnv,

Apologies, loose wording

- you're right, no-one in France also has to be married in church unless they want to

- and suggesting that England is unusual just because France and Germany are different was stretching the point much too far!!

Think I'll catch up on some sleep and start again another time....

My Great Grandparents were married twice.
The First was at the Registry Office at Hendon
The Second at the Parish Church at Willesden.

And it may be no surprise that in between was the birth of their first child :-D :-D :-D

Jeremy