Genealogy Chat

I am trying to figure out if the birth cert was compulsary for marriage in uk 1904. I am sure it was, but my prob has been ongoing for many years now. Was my grandad telling porkies ?
John J Sells who was American born (1877) met and married my granma Edith Larson in Liverpool 1904. Their marriage cert says that Grandad John's father was also called JOHN Sells and he was a police officer....
I cant find grandad John J Sells 1877 birth data in Philadelphia, they say not all were listed at that time. But I do have his sisters birth details who was born not long after in 1879 . Now 'her' father is said to be GEORGE H Sells a cashier.!!
I've looked on 1880 US Phila. census and toddler John Sells and his sister Georgianna are living with their mother Ada (really Annie) the mother is a young widow.
Would it be highly likely that the two siblings had different Sells fathers..?

I am unable to find any marriages between a John or George Sells and Mary A Phillips b 1856 Pa ..(Annie as she was know... wrongly transcribed as Ada 1880)
Is there anyone who could shed a new light on this please... thank you.

:-S

Just in case you haven't seen this. No father but dob given.

Dated 09.12.1918. Gives sister Georgeanna May Scheere as nearest relative, 2202 N Orkney Street, Phila Pa. Same address as John James.
Working as labourer at J B Stetson Co, Montgomery Avenue, Phil Pa

World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918
about John James Sells Name: John James Sells
City: Philadelphia
County: Philadelphia
State: Pennsylvania
Birth Date: 15 Apr 1877
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1907615
DraftBoard: 12

Height Medium
Build Slender
Eyes Blue
Hair Light Brown

Vera
:

Ozzie


Having a birth certificate and showing it was NOT compulsory in England and Wales.

I didn't have to show mine in 1967



I'm not sure about now.



sylvia

Probably in 1904 you were not required to produce anything at all by way of documentation.

I can't remember what we had to produce back in 1973 but I know my wife has never had a full birth certificate even to this day so that wasn't a requirement then either.

Things have certainly changed in the past 30 years. Currently in England and Wales you have to provide documentary proof for

name
age
nationality
photographic identity and
current address


Preferred documentation is a current passport together with proof of address such as bank statement, utility bill etc.

A birth cert is only necessary for those born before 1983 who have never held a passport but you have to have photo identity such as a driving licence.

For those born after 1983 it gets even harder if you don't have a passport as you also have to prove you are entitled to British citizenship so you need documents for your parents too.

We got married in 2005 and had to produce:

Birth cert
Passport
Driving license
Address via bank statement or utility bill

And then have an interview with the registra to answer questions in order to prove it was a genuine partnership and not an arranged marriage


Ozzie, have you found a death for John or George Sells?

As his mum was widowed by 1880 then its possible that John made a genuine error on his dads name when he married. Would seem his dad died when he was very young so he may not have known what his name was for sure and thought he may have been named after him.

Got married in 1978 no proof of who we were was required.

Thank you very much for all the interested replies. Jeez .. its not easy these days getting married... much easier I suppose to divorce.!

No, I have never found a correct death (or marriage) for a John or George H Sells to a Mary A Phillips. I got the name Phillips from a pension application in Phila by grandad John who stated his mothers maiden was Phillips.
There wernt too many George H Sells's born around 1850/55 PA and the ones that are seemed to marry other people.
The one Sells I found that died in 1880 was aged about 83 .. rather old I would have thought. Unless he wasnt dead and they were separated !!
Thanks again for the info... much appreciated. :-)