Genealogy Chat

I have a Joseph Starkey born 1833, Warrington, son of Joseph Starkey (born 1795) and Elizabeth Bratt. I have Joseph (1833) in the 1841 and 1851 census, a joiner. (Cant read the occupation of his father Joseph on the 1841, but it begins with BA, Joseph (1795) died in 1850.

Joseph (1833) had several brothers and sisters, for which I have some marriages, saying the father Joseph Starkey, a labourer. One of which is Josephs sister Elizabeth who married a Samuel Slater.

The big problem which I cant understand is that I have a marriage of Joseph Starkey, joiner, of Wilderspool (where family were from) who married a Rachel Maddock, 1860, but it says the father is Joseph Starkey, a brewer, and another marriage of a Joseph Starkey, joiner of Runcorn, who married an Ann Podmore, 1854, father Joseph Starkey, a brewer. Both ages for Joseph correspond exactly and he was a bachelor on them both.

The marriage to Ann Podmore has witnesses Samuel Slater and Elizabeth Slater and I am drawn towards this one. I thought maybe he married one and then was widowed to marry the other, but I have both families in subsequent censuses after their marriage. And why is the father Joseph Starkey, a brewer if he is described as a labourer on his siblings marriages.

Sorry it is very complicated, but I thought the automatic one would be the one in Wilderspool and I cant understand the change of occupation of Joseph (1795) when he died in 1850 before either marriage.

Perhaps I am missing something starring me in the face but I have brain ache and would welcome any advice if possible.

Thanks

Marilyn

You could have two different families? try posting the 1841 census details for a second opinion on his occupation

also consider these one a labourer and one a brewer they look like two separate families although could be related

Baptism: 10 Nov 1833 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Joseph Starkey - Son of Joseph Starkey & Elizabeth
Abode: Wilderspool
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: C Nicholson
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1835, Page 167, Entry 1334
Source: LDS Film 1562962

and

Baptism: 28 Sep 1834 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Starkey - Son of John Starkey & Mary
Abode: Wilderspool
Occupation: Brewer
Baptised by: C Nicholson
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1835, Page 236, Entry 1882
Source: LDS Film 1562962


Roy

Thanks Roy, I have the actual baptism record of Joseph Starkey baptised 10 November 1833, this is mine, it is the brother of my 3rd great grandmother and it says from Wilderspool on the abode and the fathers occupation is a labourer.

How do I post a census on here, (might be being stupid). :-S

Just post the details so others can find it or use copy and paste

Roy

Is this the correct 1841?

STARKEY, Joseph M 45 1796 Cheshire
STARKEY, Betty F 45 1796 Cheshire
STARKEY, George M 15 1826 Cheshire
STARKEY, Eellen F 13 1828 Cheshire
STARKEY, Elizabeth F 11 1830 Cheshire
STARKEY, Joseph M 8 1833 Cheshire
STARKEY, Betty F 35 1806 Cheshire

Piece: 92 Book/Folio: 13/6 Page: 7
Registration District: Runcorn
Civil Parish: Budworth, Great

Address: Wilderspool, Budworth, Great, Appleton County: Cheshire

Can't make out Joseph snr or George's occupations.

Thats the one yes in 1841 Marie, the Joseph and Rachel stayed around the Wilderspool area and the Joseph and Ann, as far as I can see ended up around the Manchester area in subsequent censuses from 1861.

1851 England Census about Joseph Starkey
Name: Joseph Starkey
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Betty Starkey
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Appleton, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Appleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image
Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Budworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 10
Piece: 2164
Folio: 112
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Betty Starkey 55
Elizabeth Starkey 21
Joseph Starkey 17
Hannah Bargas 10
Samas Bristow 27
Joseph Hanson 23
View
Original
Record

View original image

This is my Joseph in the 1851 census, (James Bristow is a witness on another siblings marriage)


Thanks again for all your advice

Marilyn

I have just noticed that the occupation of Betty, widow of Joseph Starkey 1795, (Joseph 1833 father) is a Laundress, at the Brewery??? on the above 1851 census, this is definitely mine but which marriage is it???

:-S :-S :-S :-S :-S

Do you think the father's occupation on the 1841 census could say Brewery?

Maybe he wasn't an actual brewer, but a labourer at a brewery.

There's a Joseph Starkey born 1831 on the 1841 census for Runcorn, but his father is John Starkey - brewer. So that just adds to the confusion.

Thanks Christina, I saw that but know my Josephs father is Joseph and I have him on the 1841 census. I will look again at the 1841 census occupation. You are right in thinking maybe he was a labourer at a Brewery, I didnt think of that.

Just looked at all the baptisms of Josephs children (1795) and he calls himself a variety of husbandsman, labourer and brewer on all of them.

I looked at the 1841 census again and it definitely begins with B and a high possibility of ending in Y, so there is a very high chance. Anyone else have a look please??

Thanks

Looks like brewery to me

Thanks Gins, just got the problem now of which marriage it is, any, both, or even none?????

:-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S :-S

The 1861 shows a Joseph Starkey born Warrington with wife Ann and he is a basket maker so I dont think its th man on the certificates that you have

I cant see any others on the 1861 that match your man other than the Joseph with Rachel

Could Ann have died and Joseph married again but gave his status as 'bachelor' at the time?


Deaths Jun 1855
-----------------------------------------------
Starkey Ann Gt Boughton 8a 245


Edit: What are the details for Ann Podmore on the marriage cert, fathers name age/occupation and also her age and address she gives...witnesses too please

ringo starr born liverpool and drummer with the beetles,was born starkey.
was he a relation of yours? :-D

Gins, (sorry so late, was working) details as follows:

Marriage of Joseph Starkey, full age, bachelor, joiner, Runcorn, father Joseph Starkey, brewer. March 19th 1854

To: Anne Podmore, full age, spinster, Runcorn, no fathers details

Witnesses: Samuel Slater and Elizabeth Slater (Josephs sister and her husband)

The other marriage is

Joseph Starkey aged 26, bachelor, joiner, Wilderspool (this is where Joseph was baptised), father Joseph Starkey, brewer 26 February 1860

To: Rachel Maddock aged 21, spinster, Low Walton, father Joseph Maddock, farmer.

Witnesses John Starkey (not sure yet who this is) and Ann (Maryham???)

You could have a point about Joseph saying he was a bachelor again, could he do this, or maybe he got divorced ??

I was looking at Joseph and Ann on all the censuses and realised that yes that one was a basket maker.

Thanks for your information Gins.

Suzanne, quite possible, you never know lol. :-D

I think I have decided that he married them both, and either Ann died 1855 (as Gins mentioned) , or they got divorced, both which could easily fit. (Or perhaps he was a BIGAMIST lol. At the moment cant find any children of Joseph Starkey and Ann. Still dont know why he put he was a bachelor again on the marriage to Rachel, perhaps he wanted to describe himself as single again.

Looking properly at the censuses Gins is right again is saying that the only Joseph and Ann around is where Joseph is a basket maker. I have just downloaded all the censuses with Joseph and Rachel and it shows Joseph as born in Appleton area, as well as showing him born in the Appleton area when he was single, and a joiner throughout.

Thank you so much to everyone who has helped.

One last thing, just wondered if there is anywhere about to view divorces or anything. Does anyone know.

Thanks again

Marilyn :-S :-) :-D

Hi Marilyn

Im pretty sure they wouldnt have divorced, it just wasnt done, unless you were VERY wealthy

Listing his marital status - not unheard of for a widower to be listed as a bachelor, it was whtever he told them at the time

The only way to know for sure is to buy the death certificate for Ann and hope the informant is Joseph

x

Thanks Gins, I may do that then x