Genealogy Chat

I have several members of my Firmin tree who appear and then vanish with no trace. Blanche and her son Harry being good examples....

Blanche Firmin was born in Runcorn Cheshire in 1875.

Blanche's parents are father unknown, mother Harriet Lucy Firmin 1854 - 1892 who was originally born in Bethnal Green but moved to Cheshire.

Harriet Firmin married William Cartwright in 1881 (found marriage record) but she is on her own (listed as married) on the 1891 census living with her widowed mother and several Cartwright children. She then dies and no trace can be found for William or their children on subsequent census returns. Typos and transcipt errors SB Eliza Firmin and Harriett Cartwright.

Eliza Firman 62
Harriett Firman 37
Martha Cartwright 9
Eliza Cartwright 9
Edward F Cartwright 6
Florence Cartwright 4
Harriett Cartwright 1

Blanche in 1881 aged 6 is not with her mother(elsewhere as a servant obvs before her marriage to William) but is listed with her grandparents. She never appears again on any census returns, no death, no marriage but I found a son Harry born to her, again out of wedlock in 1895.

Name: Harry Firmin
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 3 Feb 1895
Christening Place: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Mother's Name: Blanche Firmin

and he is then listed as a grandaughter (cough) living with his greatgrandmother Eliza only.

Name: Harry Firmin
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Granddaughter
Where born: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Runcorn
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Runcorn
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

after this they all vanish...presumably Eliza Firmin died...no death record.....did Harry go to a relation? Die too? In a workhouse? Did Blanche take himback? Remarry? I've been round and round on Ancestry. Many Cartwrights, thinking William remarried and looking for the kids but nothing......did they emigrate??? Or is it a case of records not yet available?

If anyone has access to a different site which has more/different records for these people or can wave a magic wand to help me with this hurdle I'd be grateful.

Jan X

????

Name: Blanche Firmin
Event: Christening
Event Date: 31 Mar 1875
Event Place: Holy Trinity, Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Gender: Female
Age:
Marital Status:
Father: Edward Firmin
Mother: Harriet Firmin
Spouse:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Father:
Spouse's Mother:
Film Number: 2106343
Digital Folder Number: 4019021
Image Number: 1008

Not sure if you have this??


1891 England Census

Name: Blanche Cartwright
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Halton, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Halton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Halton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Runcorn

Samuel Sanders 34
Mary Ann Sanders 36
Ethel Mary Sanders 4
Blanche Cartwright 16

Thats the one....Edward is listed as her father but is actually her grandfather :o/

I hadn't seen that census return for her being a servant....it could be her...suspicion is that she registered Harry using Firmin name....but it ooks a good one to check out....

Name: William Cartwright
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 29 May 1881
Event Place: All Saints, Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Age: 28y
Marital Status:
Father: Paul Cartwright
Mother:
Spouse: Harriet Firmin
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Father: Edward Firmin
Spouse's Mother:
Film Number: 2191035
Digital Folder Number: 4019121
Image Number: 369

You're finding the right ones there SAFC cheers... and as I posted earlier confirms that Blanche's father is unknown and Edward is her grandfather....I think William Cartwright may have had a previous marriage too as there is a Paul Cartwright Jnr on Ancestry trees which people have attributed to Harriett but he was born in about 1874 I think...

my main interest now is trying to find the younger Cartwrights after Harriett died in 1892, where Blanche went and what happened to Harry ...but they are hiding from me ...or I'm not looking in the right places

Thanks for people helping so far :o) Much appreciated X

I did kind of wonder about this one, not least of all because I can't find a marriage to exclude it!!

1911 England Census

Name: Blanche Miller
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Halton
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Long Row Halton Road Near Runcorn Cheshire
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Runcorn
Registration District Number: 446
Sub-registration district: Runcorn

W H Miller 38
Blanche Miller 37
Fanry Miller 14
Sarah Miller 12
James Miller 11
Margaret Miller 8
Blanche Miller 7
W H Miller 3
Annie Miller 1

Jan

Sorry, not her:

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
Bentham Elizabeth Ellen Runcorn 8a 399
Hancock Robert Holland Runcorn 8a 399
MILLER William Henry Runcorn 8a 399
MILLINGER Blanche Runcorn 8a 399

Thanks Jean...I keep doing things like that and chase leads that turn into nothing.....I've been up down and sideways thinking if I follow other members maybe I'll find something but so far sod all!

Many hands make light work...or turn more stones ;o)

ok.I cant find a re-marriage for William but found this 1901 census.....


Name: Sarah Cartwright
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Runcorn
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Runcorn
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Registration district: Runcorn
Sub-registration district: Runcorn
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 79
Piece: 3334
Folio: 11
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Cartwright 51
Edward Cartwright 16
Harriet Cartwright 12

Edward and Harriet both fit the date for William and Harriet's children...seems tenous and too many records seem to be "not there" and other Sarah Cartwrights are about on other census returns but not with the right children or birth places.....

1901 census....

Name Age
Samuel Green 48
Mary Green 50
Samuel Green 23
Mary E Green 19
Benjamin Green 16
Percy Green 10
Dorothy Green 8
Florence Cartwright 14
Eliza Cartwright 18
View
Original
Record

View original image
Florence seems to be working as a cotton weaver bording with the Greens and Eliza is lised as a domestic servant visiting in Newmills Derbyshire.....

1901 Census

John Wood 58
Elizabeth Wood 68
Martha Cartwright 19

Martha is with her aunt :o) Williams sister Elizabeth....

see what asking for help doe LOLOL makes you find things you couldnt find for ages.....

still stuck with Blanche n Harry.....
;-) ;-)