Genealogy Chat

My Great grandfather was a Greenwich pensioner in 1881 census but his daughter (my Granny) was born in Belgaum India and her birth is registered in military births with 2nd Regiment next to her name - please can anyone help on this apparent anomaly? I thought a Greenwich pension was for sailors. Vera

Greenwich pensioner


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A Greenwich pensioner was the Naval equivalent of a Chelsea pensioner.

Although the initial concept of a Greenwich pensioner was that of someone living in the Royal Hospital Greenwich, the institution became responsible for the payment of pensions in 1804 (taking over the responsibility from the Chatham Chest).

Consequentially, an ex-sailor (or ex-Royal Marine) living in Royal Hospital Greenwich would be known as an "in-Pensioner." Those persons who were in receipt of a pension, but lived elsewhere, were known as "out-pensioners".

It was permissible for out-pensioners to apply for entry to Greenwich, thereby relinquishing their out-pension.

In common with the union workhouses of the 19th century, the families of the men were not allowed to reside with the men. If a resident wished to leave the hospital, they were free to do so. If they wanted to re-enter, they would have to wait until a year had passed.

The residents were bound by militarised rules and regulations. Like their contemporaries at Chelsea, they wore a uniform of tricorne hats, albeit with blue coats. Pensioners who broke the rules would have to wear a yellow coat, known as a "canary", and would have to perform menial tasks while wearing this garment. Greenwich pensioners adopted a standardised uniform long before the Royal Navy.

Greenwich pensioners were in residence from 1705 to 1869, and acquired the nickname "Greenwich geese" from the townspeople of Greenwich. The lifestyle of Greenwich Pensioners is brought to life as part of the "Discover Greenwich" tourist attraction in the Pepys Building.


Andy

Thanks - He was not an in-pensioner but was living at home in 1881 and died in 1882 so I imagine ill-health/injury gave him the pension but how if he was a soldier? Vera

A copy of the Birth Cert. for Daughter, might give Info. on him, you can order it as normal from GRO (Overseas Births) as you have found details.

Chris :)

Vera, why not give us some details about him and we'll see if we can find anything .....

If he was a Greenwich Pensioner and in a Regiment then he was probably in the Royal Marines. All very confusing; they are part of the Royal Navy but have Army Ranks etc.

If you have the actual birth cert. it will probably have full details of the father's rank and regiment.

Royal Marines Registers of Service are at the National Archive


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=36&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

Maybe he was a Royal Marine - I had assumed he was a sailor because of the Greenwich Pension. Interesting if he was as I used to work in an RM base and have a 'soft spot' for them! His name was Michael Ryan from Ireland born in 1840 (their are hundreds of them) and my Gran was Evaline Ryan born 1872 in Belgaum India. In the list it shows 2nd Regt by her birth. I would love any help I can get - like many people I wish I had asked more questions when my mother and aunt were alive. :-)

Name: RYAN, Evaline
Mother's name: Not available before 1966
Regiment:2nd Foot
Place : Belgaum
Country: Indian Subcontinent
Year: 1871
Volume : 991
Page: 30
Record source: GRO Regimental Birth Indices (1761 to 1924)


(if this one Vera, you can get a copy of Cert., from GRO (Overseas Births)

Chris :)

1881
RYAN, Michael Head Married M 42 1839 Pensioner Greenwich
Ireland
RYAN, Mary J Wife Married F 40 1841
Kilkhampton, Cornwall
RYAN, Evaline Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Belgeim, East Indies
RYAN, Frank Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar
Plymouth, Devon
RYAN, Letitia F Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar
Kilkhampton, Cornwall
COURTICE, John Step Father Widower M 69 1812 Formerly Farm Laborer
Devonport, Devon
COURTICE, Titus Nephew Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Kilkhampton, Cornwall
Piece: 2269
Folio: 6
Page: 6
Registration District: Stratton
Civil Parish: Kilkhampton
Municipal Borough:
Address: ?, Kilkhampton
County: Cornwall


Day Month 16-Jan
Year 1876
Parish Or Reg District Kilkhampton
Forename Frank
Surname RYAN
Sex
Father Forename Michael
Mother Forename Mary Jane
Residence Kilkhampton
Father Rank Profession Army pensioner
Transcriber Linda Nelson

Day Month 14-Apr
Year 1878
Parish Or Reg District Kilkhampton
Forename Letitia Fanny
Surname RYAN
Sex
Father Forename Michael
Mother Forename Mary Jane
Residence Kilkhampton
Father Rank Profession Army pensioner
Transcriber Linda Nelson


Burial
Day Month 03-Jul
Year 1882
Parish Or Reg District Kilkhampton
Forename Michael
Surname RYAN
Age 42
Residence Kilkhampton


(3 above taken from below link)


http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/

Thanks - I do have these details so really do need to spend some money and get the birth certificate!