Genealogy Chat

Hi all
I am looking for 4 illigitimate births between the years 1838 and 1851 in Selkirk Scotland and i cant find anything. The mum Jessie/Janet Thorburn is at home with her parents in 1841 and her 1st illigitimate daughter Janet/Jessie Heatlie is with her. Jessie went on to have 3 more illigitimate children with the same man Andrew Heatlie but for what ever reason they never married and Jessie died a single woman in 1889, Andrew married Isabella Fairgrieve in 1860 but he died in 1865 no more children. I know their father was Andrew as he is written on each of the death certificates. What i am asking is, is this unusual for none of the children to be registered at that time and was there any kind of poor relief in Scotland at that time that maybe Jessie could have applied for. Also Andrew is know where to be found on either the 1841 or 1851 census.

WELL if the children were illegitimate then maybe the facts of their births may have been kept secret to just a few family members. Only actual records can help if people did decide to record events

I believe that civil registration did not begin in Scotland until 1855.

Prior to that births/baptisms would usually be recorded in the parish registers of the established Church of Scotland.

The death records you mention are presumably those of the four children you are looking for, and which name both the Mother and Father in full as Thorburn and Heatlie. Is that correct?

The simple answer is that the births were too early to be registered. Civil registration in Scotland didn't come into force until 1855

In the strictest sense that's correct but the Church tended to keep a close eye on goings on and encourage christening at least, chastising the parents publicly for illegitimate births. Even if these people were not churchgoers, parish records may contain commentary about their behaviour. If the records survive they will be at Register House in Edinburgh

The Parish was the poor relief of the time, indeed in Scotland Social Security is still sometimes referred to as "The Parish". Such payment would be in the records if they survive.

Sounds to me that this man may have been married and carrying on a relationship with this woman over a long period. In my tree I have a Mother and three daughters who up to 1851 had a total of four illegitimate children by different fathers, but all were baptised.

Hi Malcom
Yes the death registers are those of the 4 children i am looking for, the father is written down in full as Andrew Heatlie and the mother as Jessie Thorburn on all the certificates. Andrew Heatlie wasnt married until 1860 as far as i can tell and it gives no indication on the marriage cert wether he was a batchelor or not. i havent found him on either the 1841 or 1851 census which was around the time he was having these children with Jessie so there there is a slight possibility he could of been married to someone else at that time but until i find him i wont know unfortunately.

Couldn't resist a peek at the Marriage Cert Heatlie/ Fairgrieve (note her spelling). He 49, Batchelor. She 43 Spinster. He weaver/Journeyman. Note that this is in Galashiels, Not Selkirk where both are resident and the service is held in a private house, not a Church though banns are per the United Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Witness, another Andrew Heatlie. Possibly a Nephew?

Nothing conclusive here: Just that marrying away from their residence hints that the local (Selkirk) minister wasn't keen to marry them, for what reason? (Disgusting Fornication!!!)

The "Journeyman" might mean he was flitting about hence difficulty with the census.

This might not even be your Andrew.

I can only suggest Register House and Parish Records for the period if you wish to take this further.

Hi Malcolm
Yeah thats the correct Andrew Heatlie. The witness Andrew Heatlie is one of his sons, the reason i know this is i have checked on the 1861 census and there are only two Andrew Heatlies on it, the above Andrew who married Isabella and the witness Andrew who is 15 and living at home with his mum Jessie Thorburn, so at least he acknowledged them i suppose. The fact that they married away from Selkirk is interesting i suppose its a definate possibility that the church knew he had fathered 4 children out of marriage and frowned upon it. Where is the Register House i will check this out?
Thankyou