Genealogy Chat

We have just discovered a William Barton died in the Great War in our family tree, we also have an ancestor who was a Desert Rat in WWII. I have not subscribed yet but what sort of information do you get or are there any extra associated costs researching further. There are 3 recorded deaths as he was born in Birmingham, but I do know he was ~30 in 1914. With our Desert Rat as he survived what type of information could I gather?

Search free here to hopefully find William's death recorded and his burial place.

http://www.cwgc.org/

The information may then be useful in finding out more about him.

Hello Andrew, around 65% of WW1 records were destroyed in WW2. There's a chance that your relations' records *might* have survived.

I'm not too sure about WW2 records but I don't believe the actual records are on-line. I believe they have to be applied for but someone will no doubt be able to advise you further.

Have you looked for their deaths on the Commonwealth War Grave Commission site? http://www.cwgc.org/

Pleasecould you post William's details for 1911 census?
That might help us find the correct record, if it is available.

Gwyn

Andrew when you say War records which site do you mean? if its forces-war-records

I have listed below just what Lists/records are held by forces-war-records,

Please note they do NOT hold Army personnel service records for WW2


Collections List
RAF Formations List 1918
Royal Naval Division Casualties of The Great War, 1914-1924
British Jewry Book of Honour 1922
List of Etonians who served in the World War 1914-1919 and 1939-1945
UK Army List 1918
Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919
Aviators Certificates 1905-1926
Royal Marines Campaign Medal Rolls 1914-1920
Royal Naval Officers' Campaign Medal Rolls 1914-1920
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve Ratings Campaign Medal Rolls 1914-1920
UK British & Commonwealth POWs Japanese camps 1939-45
Bomber Command Losses 1939-1945
Fighter Command Losses 1940
UK Army List 1936
UK Air Force List 1940
UK Air Force List 1936
UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
The Crimean War - Naval and Marines Medal Roll
The India Medal (1895) Roll
The Boer war medals to British and Commonwealth forces 1899-1902
General Service Medal (1918)
Medal for Suez Canal Zone 1951 to 1954
The Men of Trafalgar Medal Roll
The Naval General Service Medal Roll
The Military General Service Medal Roll
The Army of India Medal Roll 1799-1826
The Kaffir Wars Medal Roll
The South Africa Medal (1877) Roll
The India General Service Medal (1854) roll
Serving personnel on the 1861 census
1870s Military Discharges
Royal Artillery 1877-81
2nd Afghan War 1878-80 Casualty Roll
UK Army List 1952
General Service Medal (1962)
Normandy Garrison Rolls (1415-1450) and Medieval Muster Rolls (1369-1453)


Roy

Thanks Gwyn for post been looking at loads of other associated sites since. Gut feeling and census records the below William Barton is one, Loads of un answered questions, but before I dig too deep. Trying to find detail of my wife's Great Great Grandmother, the death of her younger brother William was relayed to me via an Auntie Anglia, via an Auntie Doreen, so pinged them back on face book if Doreen thinks this is the match.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/402902/BARTON,%20W

This record gives the first name:

UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919

Name: William Barton
Birth Place: Birmingham
Residence: Birmingham
Death Date: 13 Jan 1917
Death Location: Home
Enlistment Location: Birmingham
Rank: Driver
Regiment: Royal Army Service Corps
Number: T/293203
Type of Casualty: Died
Theatre of War: Home
Comments: Formerly 8217, Roval Warwickshire Regt.

For WW2 records then you need to read this site

http://www.veterans-uk.info/service_records/army.html

Can take up to a year to receive service records as obviously priority is given to serving soldiers.

Thanks MarieCeleste, as he was No. 2 H.T. Depot Coy. (Horse Transport No 2 Regular army. Based at Woolwich) its in a way more intriguing. Searched in deaths and top of William Barton search for 1917 death registered in Woolwich!

Do you have his service records from Ancestry? There are 3 pages which more or less confirm the information you have given above

British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about William Barton
William Barton
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Age at enlistment: 22
Residence: 9 Prospect Place Holborn, Hill Aston B Ham
Document Year: 1916
Regimental Number: 8217
Regiment Name: Pror Bat
Number of images: 3

The first page does say that he wanted to be assigned to the ASC as a Driver. The Royal Artillery had their main base at Woolwich - they still do.

Being a death in service, the DC could be a bit sparse in information. All the same it might be interesting to read the cause of death, especially as he was never posted abroad.

Thanks Detective, could be back to the drawing board and wait on Auntie Doreen? The feedback from her was "William who was killed in the first world war,. he left 2 daughters."

The other 2 records I have posted to her make up the 3 William Bartons born in Birmingham who died in the Great War. None of the 3 gave an age but one of the below does state "Father of Miss B. M. Barton, of 147, Well St., Hockley, Birmingham" so over to Auntie Doreen! Could you please give me the birth dates for these two war hero's.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/844234/BARTON,%20WILLIAM

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/162664/BARTON,%20W

Hello Andrew, it would be very difficult for us to try to find a date of birth without knowing how old those men were when they died.

The occupants of 147 Well Street in 1911 were called Tibbins so no clues there.

Who was your wife's gg grandmother? Tracking her will hopefully lead us to the right William and then we'd have info to cross-reference with.

You said you did know that your William was 30 in 1914 so the one born 1894 is perhaps not him. What was the source of the age you have?

This 1911 shows a William of around the right age who also has a daughter with the initials BM:

GRIMSLEY, Harriet Head Widow F 63 1848 Netherwitakre Warwickshire
BARTON, Beatrice Daughter Married F 26 1885 Pen Worker Newhall Hill Bham
BARTON, William Son - In - Law Married 7 years M 27 1884 Jeweller Bridge St Bham
BARTON, Beatrice May Grand - Daughter F 3 1908 Lozells Bham
BARTON, Ivy Grand - Daughter F 2 1909 Lozells Bham
BARNES, Albert Ernest Boarder Single M 36 1875 General Printer Kingsholm Gloster
STEVENS, Eliza Boarder Widow F 79 1832 St Peters Worcester

RG number: RG14 Piece: 18277
Reference: RG14PN18277 RG78PN1102 RD385 SD4 ED8 SN269
Registration District: Aston
Sub District: Aston Manor
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Aston Manor

Address: 89 Wilton St Aston County: Warwickshire

Thank you very much MarieCeleste, I have William with his sister Elizabeth in 1901 census, and profession as a jeweller at 17. The fact he has 2 daughters ticks all the boxs.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/162664/BARTON,%20W

Could anyone please assist further, if they have access to any detail on the above William Barton, service history, medal index record, or detail of his passing. I would like to pass on some headlines to his extended family and current generation as I ask them to remember him in years to come.