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thank you but I hate trying to navigate other people's trees at this site :-)
The baptism records for the set of brothers that include Joseph and George in the late 1700s definitely say Hertfordshire but yes it is in the area right by Bishops Stortford (just slightly to the west, slightly being less than 5 miles in the case of Braughing) so I guess you never know, they could have shifted there recently before those baptisms.
I would say the best thing may be to contact those people who have that generation in their trees here and see whether they go back further.
Philip the father of that generation would have been born before 1750 so I guess he would have to be traced back to see whether he connects anywhere
If you look at familysearch you find
Philip Grout baptised 1737 Braughing Hertford son of Philip and Dinah
Philip Grout married Dinah Starky 1734 Saint Michaels Bishops Stortford
Phillip Growt baptised 1686 Braughing Hertford son of Phillip
(maybe skipping a generation)
also other baptisms to Phillip in Braughing in that generation
just looking for the name Philip Grout there was a baptism in 1788 in Little Sampford Essex to Porter Grout and Elizabeth (Porter born 1756 buried 1830 in New Sampford)
... but I don't see any baptism for Porter Grout, but possibly he was connected with the Hertfordshire people. Something to consider anyway. ... ah I see you and others have Porter 1713 and Porter 1756 in your trees. Well if you could tie him to the Philips in Hertfordshire ... !
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Hi there JC,
Many thanks for your detailed reply.
Yes, have taken my tree back to 1578 with a Richard Grout from Clavering Essex.
Some of my lineage did come from Norfolk but mostly Essex,bearing in mind that many parts of what is now Herts was then in Essex such as Bishops Stortford.Hadham[both],Varley and other parishes.Could Braughing have then been in Essex or was it definately Herts.
I am sure way back prior to the 1570's there was a connection because as you know transcripts and other documents were not always maintained owing to the literacy at that time.
Have looked through my tree but cannot link in with my lineage.
If you wish to look,my tree is available on this site.
Regards.
Michael.
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Two people here have George, James, Joseph, Thomas and William Grout as per the baptisms noted above, in their family trees at this website. One of those people also has Elizabeth Grout 1815 Puckeridge Hertfordshire.
If you were able to make contact with them they could probably provide you with descendancy information for the Grout brothers.
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Considering what Margee has posted ...
In 1841 there is a George Grout born abt 1781 in St Saviour, Norwich reg dist, Norfolk, who is of independent means.
In 1851 he is shown in the same place, born abt 1782, as a widowed landed proprietor with three domestic servants, at 8 Magdalen St. His place of birth is given as Braughin? Hertfordshire, google maps suggests Braughing.
I wonder whether he is likely to be the George of the brothers who established the factory in the early 19th century at Norwich?
There were 51 Grouts in Norfolk in 1851 (not counting any mistranscribed at Ancestry where I am looking, of course). I see two others not born in Norfolk: a George and Elizabeth couple, him a grocer born Sussex.
So unless you are descended directly from George or Joseph - if they were indeed born out of county - then it would seem your Grouts are likely not related.
Have you traced your own Grouts to anyone born before 1800?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J977-ZMC
Name: George Grout
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 05 Jan 1783
Christening Place: BRAUGHING,HERTFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Philip Grout
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C07219-2
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J74F-8V2
Name: Joseph Grout
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 14 Jan 1776
Christening Place: BRAUGHING,HERTFORD,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Philip Grout
Mother's Name: Sarah
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C07219-2
the couple also had children James 1780, Thomas 1770, possibly Wil 1769 (recorded at FS as Groat) in Thundridge Hertfordshire about 4 miles south of Braughing.
If any of those names are connected to you ... ?
A Joseph Grout married a Sarah Peakman in 1804 in Albury Hertfordshire which is essentially not distinguishable from Braughing on a map.
The 1851 census has, in Tring Hertfordshire:
Joseph Grout 75 (abt 1776) born Packeridge? Hertfordshire
- Gentleman, Landed Proprietor, Proprieter of [?], water works
Elizabeth Williams 36 niece married born same
James Williams 37 nephew married > born Norfolk, clergyman & magistrate,
Eleanor E Williams 7
Frances Williams 4
Joseph Williams 2
Henriett G Williams 10 Mo
and a very large number of servants
and I would suspect that is brother Joseph of the Norfolk Grout brothers. In 1841 that same household is in St John Hackney, Middlesex, where Joseph is shown as of independent means. Possibly Elizabeth was George's daughter.
Marriages Jun 1840
GROUT Elizabeth Hackney 3 103
WILLIAMS James Hackney 3 103
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This was found by googling:
Administrative history:
This silk manufacturing company was begun at Norwich in the opening years of the 19th century by the brothers George and Joseph Grout, the inventors of 'Norwich crape'. About 1814 the Yarmouth factory was established. 1,100 hands were employed there in 1838 and about 1,000 in 1907. At various times during the 19th century the Company possessed, besides the Norwich and Yarmouth factories and a London warehouse, plant at North Walsham and Ditchingham in Norfolk, Bungay and Mildenhall in Suffolk, Saffron Walden, Bocking and Sible Hedingham in Essex, Ponders End, Enfield, Middlesex, and at Manchester, Glasgow and Paisley. In 1819-1820 a reeling establishment was set up at Bhartiparra near Calcutta. Following a financial crisis in 1890 the Company was concentrated at Yarmouth and the other factories were closed. At the same time a Limited Company was formed. In 1923-1924 a Subsidiary was established at St. Catharine's, Ontario, and duplicates of its minutes and other records are preserved with those of the parent company (see Y/D 50/248-377 in list).
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There's quite a lot of information online & at Norfolk records office - just google it if you haven't already done so.
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Does anyone have any information on this company as being a Grout and having ancestors from Norfolk,i am wondering whether i could be connected in some way.
Await comments.
Regards.
Michael.
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