Genealogy Chat

I would guess probably not, Yvonne, if the occupation of Brick setter is correct later.
In 1901 that Walter John you've posted was a commercial clerk.

Not impossible - just seems to me that someone who had been a clerk wouldn't be likely to become a manual labourer in a brick works.

Full household in that record:

Walter John Smith

in the 1901 England Census
Name: Walter John Smith
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Son (Child)
Gender: Male
Father: George Smith
Mother: Mary Ann Smith
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul and St Thomas
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3523
Folio: 41
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 16
Household Members:
Name Age
George Smith 44
Mary Ann Smith 44
Walter John Smith 14
Rhoda Smith 11

could this be walter's father birth: 1887


Walter John Smith
England and Wales Census, 1901
Name: Walter John Smith
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Event Place: St Helens, Lancashire, England
County: Lancashire
Civil Parish: St Helens
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Thomas With St Paul
Sub-District: St Helens
Registration District: Prescot
Gender: Male
Age: 14
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Birthplace: Birmingham, Warwickshire

Hi Kathleen, I do know it is right on the census as my mum and siblings knew Sarah Mccard and her then 4 children. My Granddad used to go the dog races with Sarah's sons plus she used to visit their house when he was married and mum was growing up. I have also been told that my mum was the image of Sarahs daughter Marjorie. Although it states no relation on census I do wonder if there was a connection somewhere!
I understand what you mean about the "made up" names. I did go back even further on the census and found a family with a Wallie were the father and eldest son were brick setters. I wondered if possibly it was a tradition that ran in the family as that's what Walter John Smith was down as on granddads wedding certificate. Thanks x

How do you know that the Walter Smith in the 1911 census is "your" Walter Donald Smith?

Army records are sometimes wrong. My grandfather's army records show he was born in Hartlepool in Co, Durham in 1874 when he was actually born in London in 1870 (I have his original discharge papers). He was brought up in Hartlepool and thought he was born there and only found out in later life that he was actually born in London. He gave his year of birth as something different on several documents.

You can't always rely on certificates and documents being accurate. They are only as good as the information given by the person at the time.

A deceased father given on a marriage certificate was often "made up" in order to save face in front of the new "in'laws".

Kath. x

I have copy of his wedding certificate it states Donald on there. I also have a copy from his army record showing his date and place of of birth. His death certificate states Donald too. Thanks

Name: Walter Dutton Smith
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1907
Registration District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Event Place: West Derby, Lancashire, England
Volume: 8B
Page: 553
Line Number: 271

Does his middle name actually appear on the marriage certificate? If not where have you got the middle name Donald from?

You seem to have the exact date of birth. Where has that come from if you don't have his birth certificate?

Walter Dutton Smith seems to be the most likely birth (the certificate would give you his parent's names) although the 1911 census only has him as Walter.

Kath. x

Thank you Andrew and Ann. I have most of the information you have found. It's just getting past this bit to find who his parents actually were. Thanks x

and another girl and boy born in West Derby - mother Fowler

Name: Elizabeth A Smith
Event Type: Birth Registration
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1928
Registration District: West Derby
County: Lancashire
Event Place: West Derby, Lancashire, England
Mother's Maiden Name (not available before 1911 Q3): Fowler
Volume: 8B
Page: 1086
Line Number: 68

Name: Walter D Smith
Event Type: Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1928
Registration District: Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911): Fowler
Volume: 8B
Page: 33
Line Number: 45


Walter D Smith probably married one of the following people
Name: Elizabeth A Fowler

No birth for Walter Donald, but there is this. Right age right place

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1907 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMITH Walter Dutton W. Derby 8b 553

Andy

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
37 Harewood St Everton Liverpool, Everton, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship to household head Marital condition Gender Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Sarah McCard Head Widow Male 48 1863 Lancs Toxeth Park Lpool -
Transcription
Ellen McCard Daughter Single Female 25 1886 Lancs Maghull Cardboard Box Maker
Transcription
Mary McCard Daughter Single Female 21 1890 Lancs Maghull Lavortery Girl
Transcription
Amy McCard Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Lancs Everton Lpool Shop Assistant
Transcription
William McCard Son Single Male 17 1894 Lancs Everton Lpool Butcher's Errand Boy
Transcription
Elsie McCard Daughter - Female 14 1897 Lancs Anfield Lpool Shop Assistant
Transcription
Walter Smith Nurse Child No Relation - Male 4 1907 Lancs Everton Lpool -

Thank you Andrew. The information I have up to now is. Name) Walter Donald Smith DOB) 16/02/1907 Address on 1911 census) 37 Harewood St, Everton, Liverpool. Down as nurse child no relation . Marriage) Married Elizabeth Anne Fowler on 10/01/1928 (address at time of marriage 16 Rosscommon St. Liverpool)
His father is named a Walter John Smith (deceased) occupation) brick setter.
I have tried to find his father and came across a Richard (J?) Smith married to a Mary . Looks like he is a brick setter too. They have two daughters Mary and Laura with one son named as Wallie (short for Walter).
I have totally confused myself as to where on the board I got half the information so finding it hard to go back and re check!!
Any information most welcome , thanks .

Hi Clare and welcome to the message boards.

If you can give us the info that you have, then people on here can search records for you.

Name, address, any census info is all helpful.

Andy

is it possible to find the parents of a nurse child born in 1907. I have tried to find the birth certificate without any luck? TIA