Genealogy Chat

Jacqueline, thank you for the Collins side, I never knew my Grandm didn't get married till so late!!! that was a long time after their daughter was born in 1946.

It is funny, when I look back that we are bought up to be good and right ... and there is my Grandm with a child out of wedlock for may years, after looking through the history it was in fact a very common thing but people just kept quiet about it....

Unless ... my grandm was in fact still married and still a Frith? could that be the case? I need to look back to see if one of you came up with my dad's dad date of death...

Thank you all :)

There is so much info here my head is spinning, some of it I know but there is a huge that I don't - so thank you, it will take me a while to work through it.

GG (GreyGhost) - yes there were 3 in that marriage - Irene who died @ 2yrs (I never knew about that until couple of days ago. then Dad and his sister (still living)

Then ... Grace (Elizabeth Grace - my Grandm) remarried Charles (as I knew him)
COLLINS HUGH FREDERICK C they had a daughter 1946 (still living)

russelld928 - Dickson I know the name must be my living aunty b.1932 on dad's side son in her 2nd marriage.

I think I need to purchase a copy of dad's birth certificate & the marriage certificate 1927 of my dad's dad Frith and my grandm Singlehurst to establish details here are correct. Then I can proceed further.

THANK YOU ALL :) ... I'll let you know how I get on.

The Frith/Collins marriage was in 1974

This was the husband

COLLINS HUGH FREDERICK C 1908 — 1908 Births & baptisms Camberwell, London, England

COLLINS HUGH FREDERICK C 1908 1994 1994 Deaths & burials Wandsworth, London, England


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22 Relf Road Peckham S E, Camberwell, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
William Collins Head Married Male Printers Warehouse 33 1878 London Peckham Transcription
Adelaide Collins Wife Married Female - 33 1878 London Bermondsey Transcription
Adelaide Doris Collins Daughter Single Female School 11 1900 London Peckham Transcription
William James Collins Son Single Male School 9 1902 London Peckham Transcription
Hugh Fredirick Collins Son Single Male - 2 1909 London Peckham Transcription


His first marriage was in 1934

Williams age on the marriage certificate is given as 19 so 1927-19 = born1907/08, depending on when in the year he was born/married. Unless anyone was telling porkies.The tree looks well researched, but Ancestry trees are well known for copying from each other and all the mistakes go too.

You had said there were 3 children and I had suggested early in the thread you could find their names by entering Frith/Singlehurst - by doing this it threw up 1 in 1928 Northampton and 2 further births in the Coventry area - 1929 and 1932. A further post by me at 1800 gives a bit more info on these and indicates there may have been a 4th birth in London 1946.

Yes, info about the parents from the tree on Ancestry, but rootgatherer has given you a possible for the family in 1911 Manchester, so perhaps the tree owner assumed born Coventry? If the family moved nearer to Coventry when William was small he may have thought that's where he came from. Again root gatherer has posted a possible baptism for him in Manchester 1907, so look for a relevant birth.

Nothing further on William - I mean William Frith who you wanted to know about. Presume it's Hughey FC Collins you knew as Charles? There's a picture of Hughey on the Ancestry tree.

It is the dickson Family Tree on Ancestry that has the info. The owner is russelld928 who last signed in over a year ago.

If you don't have Ancestry you can maybe get a free trial for 2 weeks - if they ask for money, make sure you cancel the payment before the end of the trial period; or you may be able to access at your local library.

You may find you need to buy a certificate or two to confirm findings here on GR. 6 weeks were allowed in which to register a birth so for latish November onwards 1907, the registration might be Quarter 1, the March Quarter 1908

Wow! Jacqueline that's a great piece on info regarding the marriage of the Singlehursts thank you.

you guys are so fast, just amazing...

I have to log off now but this is addictive... back later or tomorrow
thank you all ,,, I still haven't read all the posts...

OK please bear with me as I am a beginner, its taking me a while to read and understand... Thank you greyghost & rootgatherer for your speedy replies and all the others too!

GG - William's birth is given as 1908 Coventry, where they are living in 1930 it says... / This sounds about right...

(This would go with births 1928 (died 1930) in Northampton and 2 further in the Coventry area) - I don't understand this?

The same tree has a picture of William's house in Coventry after the divorce! / OMG I would love to see this... how can I do this/contact them...just through website Ancestry?

His parents are given as Samuel Frith b 1879 Staleybridge and Lily b 1879 Sheffield / Is this info you got from the persons tree? can you name the contact for me? is there a way I can connect the links?

Grace said to have died Dec 1999 Croydon, having remarried to Hughey F C Collins but nothing further on William / yes this is true, but I only ever knew him as Charles! How did you get this? I am amazed!

on to reading some more posts...

Was just looking at this as I can't find them in 1901. Do you think the surname may be missed out?


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
10, Davies Street, Manchester, Lancashire, England

Learn more
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel Andrew Head Married Male 22 1879 Circular Wood Sawyer Guide Bridge, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Lily A Andrew Wife Married Female 22 1879 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Andrew Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Manchester, Lancashire, England

possibility that there were 4 children to the marriage

Irene as posted 1927, then there is
Dennis W 1929 Foleshill, Warwicks who I presume is your Dad
Another girl 1932 Warwickshire
3rd girl 1946 London - not seeing another Frith/Singlehurst marriage

not posting the last 2 names incase still living

Eleanor Frith
Birth Date: 25 Sep 1903
Age: 0
Baptism Date: 7 Oct 1903
Parish: Manchester, St Philip
Parish as it Appears: St Philips Bradford Rd
Father's name: Samuel Frith
Mother's name: Lily Frith
Reference Number: M299/3/1/7
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 857

Samuel and Lily's marriage is on Ancestry


Samuel Andrew Frith, occ. Sawyer
Birth Year: abt 1877
Age: 21
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1898
Parish: Oldham, St Peter
Parish as it Appears: S Peter Oldham Road Manchester
Father's name: William Frith, Brewer, deceased
Spouse's Name: Lily Ogden
Spouse's Father's Name: William Ogden
Reference Number: M299/1/2/2
Item Number: 6
Archive Roll: 860

If that is the correct family..........

Samuel Frith
Probate Date: 22 Sep 1947
Death Date: 29 Dec 1946
Death Place: Coventry
Registry: Birmingham, England

Probate was granted to Eleanor Young and her husband Edward Young

Louisa, someone has your grandparents marriage posted on Ancestry. The problem is the name and occupation for William's father are difficult to read on the image. His father's name looks like Samuel to me. If it is I think that's William with his parents on the 1911 census posted.

OMG!!!

I didn't realize all this conversation had happened, till just now!
Thank you. :)

I have managed to find out about my Grandmother Elizabeth Grace Singlehurst born in India but it is her first husband William Frith my REAL granddad I have so little to go on.

I know they (Elizabeth & William) were married in 1927 - William was from the Midlands, as a little boy that's where my dad grew up in Coventry...

I don't have any documentation as in a birth certificate for my dad or a marriage cert for my grandparents ... I think those documents would have more info on them?

I'm going to read these posts now...

William Frith
Birth Date: 27 Nov 1907
Date of Registration: Mar 1984
Age at Death: 76
Registration district: Truro
Inferred County: Cornwall
Volume: 21
Page: 703

The child that died was Irene Constance Frith b 1827 Northants, died 16 April 1930 Coventry. The Ancestry tree has a picture of her with a Notice of death from Gulson Road Municipal Hospital and a bill for funeral and cemetery expenses from A Pargetter Funeral Furnisher.

William Frith
Birth Date: 27 Nov
Baptism Date: 11 Dec 1907
Parish: Manchester, St Philip
Parish as it Appears: St Philip, Bradford Rd
Father's name: Samuel Frith
Mother's name: Lily Frith
Reference Number: M299/3/1/7
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 857

Had a look Greyghost but I couldn't read it either. I do think William's father looks to read as Samuel but can't decipher his occupation.

Maybe 1911?

William Frith
Age in 1911: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1908
Relation to Head: Son (Child)
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 82 Ridgway St Ancoats Manchester
Registration district: Manchester
Registration District Number: 466
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Piece: 24111
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Frith 32, Spindle Moulder
Lily Frith 32
Elizabeth Frith 12
Eleanor Frith 7
William Frith 3

That same tree has an image of William and Grace's marriage certificate.

He is a 19 year old Bachelor

She is a 20 year old spinster. Her father is Alfred William

Can anyone decipher the rest, I can't get a clear look at it??

Could be the Parish church of Hartingstone, where both bride and groom are resident possibly?

First name(s) Alfred William
Last name Singlehurst
Marriage year 1903
Marriage date 14 Dec 1903
Spouse's first name Lene Magdolene
Spouse's last name Pettit
Place Umballa
Presidency Bengal
Groom's age 29
Bride's age 19
Groom's father's first name George
Groom's father's last name Singlehurst
Bride's father's first name Edward
Bride's father's last name Pettit
Catalogue description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Archive reference N-1-312
Folio number 325

A tree on Ancestry has the 1907 birth in India relating to the girl that married William Frith in 1927.

William's birth is given as 1908 Coventry, where they are living in 1930 it says.

(This would go with births 1928 (died 1930) in Northampton and 2 further in the Coventry area)

The same tree has a picture of William's house in Coventry after the divorce!

His parents are given as Samuel Frith b 1879 Staleybridge and Lily b 1879 Sheffield

Grace said to have died Dec 1999 Croydon, having remarried to Hughey F C Collins but nothing further on William