Genealogy Chat

Re the house known as Hayne, in Stowford:

http://www.parksandgardens.org/places-and-people/site/1661
http://tinyurl.com/gpjasel
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1000693
http://tinyurl.com/o94z9pc

And a photo of it, as well as info:
http://tinyurl.com/jujh7oh


And Stowford itself:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowford

Lots more about both places if you google the names.

I will pay for the Y-DNA test of Sims men.

I am so sorry you lost your long e-mail to me, JoonieCloonie! That is SO aggravating, to work hard, then have it all go poof! Whenever you feel like it and your fingers are well-rested, try again! :)

I upgraded my brothers DNA to 67 markers. You mentioned subclades. There are about 20-25 matches for Sims of the R-M269 type, including the one I mentioned above that was a 3rd cousin. Some of them are listed as R-L21 - I could not understand why they matched my brothers, but now I think they must be subclades, so that is probably the subclade my brother would belong to. I guess I can add an SNP later?

Joonie/Cloonie, are you in Britain? Devon? Devon seems to be one of the principle supplier of able-bodied men to Virginia in the early 17th century. According to the Virginia Co. in 1620 - "There have bin thither this last yeere, and are now presently in going, twelve hundred persons and upward...and there are neere one thousand more remaining of these that were gone before. The men lately sent have bin most of them choise men, borne and bred up to labour and industry. Out of Devonshire, an hundred men, brought up to husbandry...."

I worked up a booklet about my Haynie line, with John Haney/Haynie being the immigrant. He arrived aboard the Margett and John in 1621, with his partner, Nicholas Rowe - the wives arrived in 1622 and they lived in a joint household for a while on Bucks Roe, a place set up for immigrants. It's known that N. Rowe was from Devonshire, and I doubt that he and his wife would share a home with strangers. The Haynie family moved to Northumberland County, VA later where a will was left by a man that mentions his uncle of "Hayne in Parish of Stowford in County of Devon." Do Hayne and Stowford still exist?

Sorry to get side tracked, but genealogy hobbyists do wander.......:)

I think I will wait until I get the results of the upgrade before I contact men in Britain who list Sims/Syms ancestors. Or, I may get impatient...........:)

Sherry

I do not believe this ... I just submitted a long ((!) reply to you and it disappeared ... the one time I did not copy and save before submitting ... what the ?

very frustrating and I'm not up to redoing it ... I'll get back to you!

First, it seems that whenever I used an apostrophe in my post, the post shows several marks from the top of the typewriter. I'll try to remember to eliminate apostrophes.

And, second, thank you so much for your response, JoonieCloonie!

Yes,, I got my brother's Y-DNA tested at FTDNA recently, but I only got 37 markers. Ill upgrade to 67 soon before the sale ends. What do you mean by SNP down the tree? Im SO ignorant about DNA!

I can prove my ancestry back to William Sims of James City County, VA, who died there in 1726, but left a will in James City County in 1710. I guess he didnt know how long those Sims' lived, but, in retrospect, I do! Its only by a stroke of luck (wont go into the long story) that we have whats left of his will - it names his six sons, apparently by two different wives. All the people in the Syms/Sims FTDNA project who are positively or apparently (by virtue of the counties their ancestors lived in during the 18th century in VA) descended from William are of the R-M269 type. I figured my brother would be also, and he was. His DNA showed zero separation from two people, one of whom I researched on the web, and found that hes a third cousin to our Daddy.

To say that the research done on the Sims/Syms line is specious is putting it kindly! There was a George Sims who settled in Isle of Wight County, VA later than William, and in early Sims family books, it is said that this George and William were brothers. However, the descendants of George carry a different Y-DNA than those of William - as I recall, the descendants of George are in the I-DNA group. Most genealogists have claimed that William and George were from Somersetshire, but it looks doubtful that William was from there. He could have been from anywhere!! I have avoided working on the Sims line all these years because of the tons of inaccurate material out there about this family. But my family has always asked me why I dont do the Sims - I guess they want to know about the name on the mailbox!
:-)

I advertised on Genes Reunited for male Sims a couple of months ago and got an answer. His Y-DNA turned out to be of another group, not related.

Thank you for the links - I'll be clicking on them soon!

Sherry

you may know all this, but this is the FTDNA Symes project

https://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Symes

'Genealogists and others with the surname SYMES, SIMS, SIMMS or variants are invited to join this Y-DNA project. You need a male family member to participate in the Y-DNA portion of the project. So far, we have families most frequently exploring Y-lineages from various places in Britain, Ireland and Scotland. If you know your 'place of origin' you will be especially welcome. The more participants the better the outcome. For more information, email ...'

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/SymesSims/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

in any case I'm probably telling you what you already know if you already use FTDNA, but if you don't, I highly recommend transferring results there so you can join projects.

hi Sherry, do you use FTDNA?

(M269 is a biiiig clan. :-) )

here are the Cornwall and Devon project YDNA results charts

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Cornwall/default.aspx?section=ycolorized
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/devon/default.aspx?section=ycolorized

if you haven't joined the projects, you should, if you can - both require evidence of descent from the county ... I am unsure of Cornwall vs Devon lineage in my M269 U-106 line also, but I do have an ancestor in that line born in each county (father and son) so I squeaked in ... actually I'm afraid you might not be able to join the projects until there is documentation supporting a birth there, but you might still approach the project administrators for their advice and opinions

both project administrators are very knowledgeable about DNA and county surnames and very helpful

also, you should join the M269 project there, and preferably test further SNPs so you can narrow the focus and then join the appropriate subclade project (e.g. U-106 in my case).
https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/r1b/about/background
http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroup_projects#R1b

the Cornwall OPC site
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/coverage/coverage-by-parish/#S
has very poor Saltash coverage (I know, it's the source of another of my Cornwall lines)

but findmypast has parish records for that area

the Cornwall OPC site has no Sims or Syms baptisms that early, but numerous Simon/Simons baptisms
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/baptisms/

my suggestion would be to make sure you have tested to at least 67 markers, and at least one SNP down the tree


have you searched family trees at this website for the surname variants, born in Cornwall for instance?

that is a much more direct and more likely to be successful approach for finding people with ancestors with particular surnames from particular places

for example, a search for surname Syms born 1650-1750 in Cornwall nets one George Syms 1715

of course you don't need to identify an ancestor that far back to start DNA comparison and in fact someone with a male Syms more recently in their tree is more likely to have a living male Syms handy :-)

... Syms born 1850-1950 in Cornwall nets 5 male Syms
and of course many more Sims (although why this site thinks Woolwich and Basford are in Cornwall I can't say)


in my M269 surname project at FTDNA there are people in the US with the name who have antique genealogies (the US is full of them I think, and many are truly specious) tracing it to Devon, but no one from Devon has been found to compare with ... while in my own case, it turns out that the father of a person in the US matched my male rellie's DNA, an absolutely amazing stroke of luck ... and she is the one with the established paper trail back to the 1500s, while I can't find my line before 1820!


very few are that lucky - you may be looking, not for people who have tested, but for people you can persuade to test :-)

the end of year sale is on at FTDNA until 31 December!

I'd like to correspond with men with the surname Sims/Syms or other spellings of the name who are in the R-M269 Y-DNA haplogroup, also women with the maiden name Sims/Syms who know that their father, brother, father's brother, etc. are of this type. I'm especially interested in corresponding with someone from Cornwall, Bristol, or Wales who knows something about their lineage.

My ancestor, William Syms (later spelled Sims) arrived in Colonial Virginia in 1658, where he settled in the part of James City County that became New Kent County. His son, John Sims, my ancestor, married Mary Rice, daughter of Thomas Rice. This Thomas Rice left Bristol, England in 1679 aboard the Bristol Merchant as an indentured servant to John Stevens of Virginia. A very old family history says that this Thomas Rice was Welsh. John Stevens died and William Sims bought 450 acres of his escheated (abandoned) land in 1702.

I've read that 92% of Welshmen and nearly as many men from Cornwall are of the Y-DNA R-M269 type, which would have been William Syms/Sims' type. I've also read in another Sims genealogy that William Sims was from Saltash in Cornwall, but I can't find documentation to confirm this. Since the Sims and Rice families were close, I know that Thomas Rice was Welsh, there is an indication Wm. Sims might have been from Cornwall, and he carried the very common Welsh (Celtic) type DNA, there is a good likelihood that William Sims was from Wales, Cornwall, or maybe Bristol.

Thanks!

Sherry Sims Gerald