Genealogy Chat

Hilda had the name Curner because the father acknowledged that she was his child. She didn’t ‘take’ the name - it was hers from birth.

Just accept that her mother had her out of wedlock and that she didn’t have a lasting relationship with her daughter’s father

Don’t try to complicate a very simple situation.

Not in "World" records on FMP either, so think it's safe to say they didn't marry.

Also outside Scotland.

Michael that's pretty much it in a nutshell, there is no marriage that I can find to Curner, unless it was outside England and Wales.

Can't get my head round this now. If Ethel May Margaret was born in 1916 and Ethel May didn't marry Cresswell until 1919 she was then Castle as there is no father on the birth certificate. So, if there is no record of a marriage to Harvey Willie Curner with Ethel May is it possible that the daughter of that relationship, Hilda, took her father's name because he appears on her birth certificate? That is then the reason why he freely went on to marry Florence Beatrice Gowing in June 1932 in Wandsworth? Curner was born in 1893 in Bere Alston in 1893 and died Fulham Dec 1937. From DNA testing there is now a link to Nova Scotia, Canada to the illegitimate child of Ethel May Margaret born 1945!

Possibly someone has put the marriage of Ethel M Cresswell on a tree somewhere but without checking? There is one marriage in 1923 E M Cresswell to Mr Esmond, but it's a different lady. Or at least I assume it is?? EDIT maybe this one?

21 Bulstrode Road, Heston and Isleworth M.B., Middlesex, England

Esmond household
(2 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Charles D Esmond 29 Sep 1896 Male Pipe Fitter Railways Widowed 92 1 ( Charles W on image and married)
Mary E Esmond 18 Dec 1893 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 92

The ONLY reference to Harvey Willie Curner on freebmd is this

Births Jun 1892 (>99%)
Curner Harvey Willie Tavistock 5b 345

There is a marriage in 1932 without a second initial and a death in 1944, again with no 'w'

He didn't marry Ethel - unless it was not in England/Wales

'Living in sin' was much more common than our antecedents would have had us believe!

:-) I'm glad they are back Erika, as it reminded me to ask whether anyone else could see the marriage of Ethel to Mr Curner?

At least GR have their brains in gear....lol!

My reported posts have been reinstated. :-)

Erika, it can't have been data protection as the 1911 census was one of the posts that's gone ( albeit the wrong family) and the 1939 reg for the Ethel Mary who died 1977 was the other :-S In any case I would happily have amended or deleted if asked.

EDIT : The other post that's gone was a link to the CWGC death of Frank the son. born 1922 died 1944 .

Who in his or her right mind would report Rambling's posts?

And which reason for so doing would they choose?

Glad you found your way back Michael. Divorce was expensive so out of the reach of many, often you will find another marriage without a divorce.

I am a bit confused as to why so many of my posts on here have been Reported? Could whoever has done so please contact me to clarify, no offence taken but would like to know why :-) I know that some of them were for the wrong family, as I noted having realised, but one of the posts that has gone was simply saying I had PMd Michael to let him know how to return here.

Thanks to you and everyone who has supplied me with confirmation of what I have already discovered. From that it would appear that Ethel never divorced either Cresswell or Curner and therefore, Curner was still married to her when he married Gowing. Know very little about divorces and the law in the 1920s, but were they all bigamists!?

On the other thread Michael also asks for details of Florence Beatrice Gowing.

??
Birth
GOWING, FLORENCE BEATRICE mms BARBER
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in WANGFORD Volume 04A Page 1002


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Barber Harriett Wangford 4a 1181
Gowing Charles John B Wangford 4a 1181


Florance Gowing
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Florance Gowing
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Charles J Gowing
Mother: Harriet Gowing
Birth Place: Ringsfield, Bedfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Barsham
Ecclesiastical parish: Barsham Holy Trinity
Town: Barsham
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Wangford
Sub-registration district: Beccles
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors:
Piece: 1800
Folio: 10
Page Number: 11
Household schedule number: 60
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles J Gowing 30
Harriet Gowing 31
Florance Gowing 4
Albert Gowing 11/12


Florence Gowing
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Florence Gowing
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ringsfield, Suffolk
Civil Parish: Norton Subcourse and Raveningham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Street address: Norton Subcourse, Loddon, Norfolk
Registration district: Loddon
Registration District Number: 229
Sub-registration district: Aldeby
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 81
Piece: 11401
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gowing 40
Florence Gowing 14
Albert Gowing 10
Frederick Gowing 6


Florence B Curner
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Florence B Curner
Gender: Female
Marital status: Widowed
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1896
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 76A Warwick Rd.
Residence Place: Kensington, London, England
Occupation: Paid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 185
Sub Schedule Number: 3
Enumeration District: AMDN
Registration district: 2-1 59a
Household Members:
Name
James Flanagan
Mabel Flanagan
Florence B Curner
Joyce Violet Gowling [ Gowing ] - later Bullock



Florence Beatrice Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Florence Beatrice Curner
Death Age: 87
Birth Date: 23 Apr 1896
Registration Date: Jul 1983
[Aug 1983]
[Sep 1983]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Chiltern and Beaconsfield
Inferred County: Buckinghamshire
Volume: 19
Page: 0914


I don't see the births of any Curner/Gowing children.

Florence is on London ERs for many years.


Harvey's death:

Harvey Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Harvey Curner
Death Age: 44
Birth Date: abt 1893
Registration Date: Oct 1937
[Nov 1937]
[Dec 1937]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Fulham
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 399


Harvey Willie Curner
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Harvey Willie Curner
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Berealston, Devon
Civil Parish: Bere Ferrers
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: Station Road, Berealston, South Devon
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Gardener Market
Registration district: Tavistock
Registration District Number: 279
Sub-registration district: Calstock
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 119
Piece: 13065
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Curner 58
Harvey Willie Curner 18


Harvey Curner
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Harvey Curner
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Father: John Curner
Mother: Elizabeth Curner
Birth Place: Bere Ferrers, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Bere Ferrers
Ecclesiastical parish: Bere Ferrers St Andrew
Town: Bere Alston
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Tavistock
Sub-registration district: Calstock
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 2115
Folio: 18
Page Number: 7
Household schedule number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
John Curner 58
Elizabeth Curner 48
Tom Curner 15
Harvey Curner 8


Harvey Willie Curner
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Harvey Willie Curner
Registration Year: 1892
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Tavistock
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 315


Harvey Curner
in the British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
Name: Harvey Curner
Gender: Male
Document Year: 1914
Residence Place: Station Road, Bere Alston
Regimental Number: 1412
Regiment Name: 3rd Battalion R F A 4th Wessex Brigade
Form Title: Territorial Force Attestation
Number of Images: 5
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
Harvey Curner Self (Head)
Curner Mother

H W Cresswell seems to have come from a well priviliged family.


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Linden Grove, Taunton St James, Taunton, Somerset, England

Sackville B Cresswell Head Married Male 40 1851 Solicitor Monmouthshire, Wales
Lucy E Cresswell Wife Married Female 39 1852 - Warwickshire, England
Richard S Cresswell Son Single Male 11 1880 Scholar Northamptonshire, England
Humphrey B Cresswell Son Single Male 9 1882 Scholar Devon, England
Barbara I Cresswell Daughter Single Female 5 1886 Scholar Somerset, England
>>Henry W Cresswell Son Single Male 4 1887 - Somerset, England
William F Cresswell Son Single Male 2 1889 - Somerset, England
Catherine Warr Servant Single Female 15 1876 General Servant Domestic Somerset, England
Ellen Chedgey Servant Single Female 13 1878 General Servant Domestic Somerset, England


and then is this him in 1901?


1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

High Street, Bugbrooke, Northampton, Northamptonshire, England

Percy S White Head Married Male 32 1869 Physician And Surgeon Eccleshill, Yorkshire, England
Louie E White Wife Married Female 29 1872 - Barton, Staffordshire, England
Amy E C Harris Servant Single Female 22 1879 Cook (Domestic) Grimscote, Northamptonshire, England
Amy M Bubb Servant - Female 13 1888 Housemaid (Domestic) Banbury, Northamptonshire, England
>>Henry W Cresswell Servant - Male 14 1887 House Boy Taunton, Somerset, England



Now he's a carpenter? He is married.

Name: Henry Wanneford Cresswell
Admission Age: 36
Discharge Age: 36
Record Type: Admission and Discharge
Birth Date: 1886
Admission Date: 2 Jul 1922
Admission Place: Westminster, Westminster, London, England
Discharge Date: 4 Jul 1922
Discharge Place: Westminster, Westminster, London, England


Looks like his father got into a bit of trouble before his death in 1897. He only left his wife £10 in his will

From the other post.

Ethel had 2 girls Ethel May Margaret Castle + Catherine Joan Cresswell. I believe there was another daughter Hilda Curner b1924 and there may also have been a son. I can find no record of Ethel's divorces.
Ethel May was my maternal grandmother and was always told she died in 1923 putting the first 2 girls into foster care - can anyone help sorting out this mystery?

Have sent a PM advising how to return.

Another thread posted now

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1378259

The last birth we know of for sure was Hilda Curner in 1924, Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Curner Hilda J Castle Kensington 1a 142

Just wondering about this birth?


Births Dec 1925 (>99%)
Castle Female Castle Kensington 1a 125