Genealogy Chat

I know sometimes people have their names changed shortly after birth, but do you think it would be possible that someone changed their name from Patrick to Peter between 1881 (when he was 15) and 1887 (when he got married)? He was still peter in 1901 (Havent yet found him in 1891). I think I have the right family, but I dont know of the names of his siblings, nor have I got a death or birth cert. for him (Im doing this for a friend). Here's my reasoning. I got a copy of Peters Marriage cert., stating his mother as Catherine and his father as Thomas (occupation Soap maker). I thought it quite an unusal trade, so, using ancestry 1881 scotland census, I typed in the occupation only, and up came Thomas, living with Catherine and 5 children, but no Peter. Found the family again in 1871, and again, no peter, but there was a Patrick on both, aged about right. I'd really like to help this lady, as she's just found out she's been following the wrong family (mine!) and has done for the last two years or so. Any suggestions would be great.

I,ve got the same thing going on here one minute gone the next ... try to find Peter/patrick on the1891 census,that will help Can you give a surname??? and place

It was very common for people to use their second names in day-to-day life. Maybe your fellow was Peter Patrick or Patrick Peter. I have a Louisa Mary Knight who gave her name on her marriage certificate as Mary Knight and continued for the rest of her life as Mary. I think it may have had something to do with the death of her mother who had the same names.

Here's peter in 1901 Name: Peter Docharty Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Agnes Gender: Male Where born: Glasgow Registration Number: 644/8 Registration district: Milton Civil parish: Glasgow St George IN The Fields County: Lanarkshire Address: 34 Lyon St Occupation: Blacksmith Hammerman ED: 42 Page: 3 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 12 Line: 1 Roll: CSSCT1901_295 Household Members: Name Age Agnes Docharty 33 Agnes Docharty 8 Margaret Docharty 14 Mary Docharty 1 Patrick Docharty 3 Peter Docharty 35

Ok, here's what ive got. Peter Docherty married Agnes Mcmanus in Milton, Glasgow in 1887. Peter's Parents are Thomas Docherty (Soap Maker) and Catherine Bowland. I cant find a marriage for this couple. Here are the census' I found 1881:- Name: Thomas Docherty Age: 40 Estimated birth year: abt 1841 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Catherine Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Registration Number: 644/4 Registration district: Calton Civil parish: Glasgow Barony County: Lanarkshire Address: 32 Tobago Street Occupation: Soap Maker ED: 45 Page: 11 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 43 Line: 19 Roll: cssct1881_224 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Docherty 36 Catherine Docherty 11 James Docherty 17 Jane Docherty 9 Patrick Docherty 15 Thomas Docherty 40 Thomas Docherty 13 James Monaghan 17 1871:- Name: Thomas Docherty Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1841 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Catherine Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Registration Number: 644/4 Registration district: Calton Civil parish: Glasgow Calton County: Lanarkshire Address: 3 Cross Gibson Street Occupation: Sheneiler ED: 30 Page: 18 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 124 Line: 7 Roll: CSSCT1871_131 Household Members: Name Age Catherine Docherty 29 Catherine Docherty 1 James Docherty 7 Patrick Docherty 5 Thomas Docherty 30 Thomas Docherty 3 Patrick Duffie

and a possible for 1891, though im not certain. Ive been told that the 1901 is defo him. Name: Peter Docherty Age: 24 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relationship: Prisoner Gender: Male Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire Registration Number: 622/2 Registration district: Shettleston Civil parish: Barony County: Lanarkshire Address: Parkhead, Near Glasgow Occupation: Hammerman ED: Her Majestys General Prison Barlinnie Page: 11 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 1 Line: 5 Roll: CSSCT1891_222 Household Members: Name

Paul, That was my thinking. But I didnt want to assume, and lead her a merry dance!

Hi Jodi Hope this might help. Kindest regards Maureen Patrick (male) Synonym(s): Peter (M) Variants: Pádraig (M) Padruig (M) Pàtair (M) Patricus (M) Diminutive(s): Pat (M) Patk (M) Pet Name(s): Paddy (M) Derivative(s): Cospatrick (M) Patrick (S) Patterson (S) Can be spelt: Patric (M) Petrick (M) Feminine form: Patricia (F)

Thank you Maureen, that does help loads. Im really swinging towards the idea that Peter and Patrick are one and the same people. That just makes my case a little stronger!

Many people with obviously Irish-sounding names, anglicised them in the late 1880s, due to the anti-Irish feeling at the time. This usually extended to surnames too, so you MIGHT be looking at two different people. Padraig, pronounced Patrick, is the Irish version of Peter. OC

Hi Jody I have nudged the thread back up for you. Kindest regards Maureen

Thank you Maureen, ive booked it. Im sure to come across more of these! OC, Thank you for letting me know. I guess what i'll have to do, is pass all the info over that ive found (and everyone has so kindly told me!) and hope my friend finds some more 'proof'.

An Olde Crone Holden Hello again And yes you are right it is the famous No Irish Need Appply. Hope no one takes offense at this . Kindest regards Maureen

1891 have you ruled this one out ? Name: Peter Dougherty Age: 25 Estimated birth year: abt 1866 Relationship: Head Spouse's name : Agnes Gender: Male Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire Registration Number: 644/8 Registration district: Milton Civil parish: Glasgow Milton County: Lanarkshire Address: 12 William St Occupation: Iron Labourer ED: 82 Page: 13 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 56 Line: 6 Roll: CSSCT1891_273 Household Members: Name Age Agnes Dougherty 23 Margaret Dougherty 4 Peter Dougherty 25 Mary McManus 24 Maureen

Oh Maureen, you're a little star! Thats him, im 99.9% sure, as Peter married Agnes Mcmanus, so the boarder could well be his sister in law. I think I was trying to be cleaver, by using his occupation (hammerman in 1887 and 1901). And from the 1901 census, the children match up just right! Still cant find a birth or death for him. I can totally understand why this lady thought my Peter Docherty was the same as hers!

Jodi, Not 100% certain but the only match I could find for Agnes with daughter Margaret. A lodger with the same surname could be a red herring. Good luck with the search Maureen