Genealogy Chat

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Just caught up with this one! Mary Alice Hoyles - born about 1876 Warrington, Liverpool? What about this one? Father shown as John but he may be John William as they have named youngest son William? A ND Mums name is Alice. 1881 Warrington: Walter Griffiths 26 Alice Hoyles 27 John Hoyles 28 Mary A. Hoyles 6 William Hoyles 1 I think you need to find Mary's birth ref and get her cert.

Thanks for all the replies. Freda

Margaret But the census enumerator would see them as gypsies..... OC

I have been trying to help a 'Traveller' trace her family for a number of years and not got far. Problem is that she tells me that the family worked on farms in the New Forest and often changed their surname. She also tells me that she was a Traveller as opposed to a Gypsy. Margaret N

Annie You are quite correct in what you say, but this wording would not apply on a marriage cert as a marriage did not confer rights of settlement. And by this time, settlement issues were not a problem anyway as people could move freely as they wished. I agree with Heather - the occupation of traveller in the 19th century meant a commercial traveller, not a gypsy or tinker, who were called hawkers when they werent called gypsies or tinkers! OC

It says in my book,that some parishes were reluctant to baptize the children of non residents in case they tried to claim settlement,or support under the poor laws.The parishes that did baptize then marked the entries with the word traveller.The word 'sojourner'in a register means someone who was there for a short time,and may encompass both itinerants and visitors who were staying with friends or breaking a journey at a local inn. Annie

hi, dont know if this links to you or not Haden Family Tree Public Member Tree Unsourced Name: Mary Alice Hoyles Birth: 1875 - Widnes Spouse: William Beard found it in ancestry under family trees Widnes was in the county of Lancashire up to 1974 when the local government reorganization changed us overnight, and we became part of Cheshire County to be merged with our neighbour over the river Runcorn, and to be known as Halton District. do you have or can you get the marriage cert as that would have her age on it.

bumping up

Hi Im looking for a William Hoyles his daughters name was Mary Alice, she married a William Beard first Quarter 1893 St Elphins Warrington, residence at the the time was Marsh House Lane for both parties but in 1901 census they lived in Ashton-in-Makerfield. I have gone up and down the other censuses but with no luck, even tried a different spelling, she was supposed to have been born in 1876 Liverpool she had a sister living with her in 1901 but cant tell wether her name was Kate or Katie born Widnes. Freda

Hi Freda, I have Gypsy/Traveller Ancestors too, take a look at the Romany & Traveller Family History site, there is alot of info on there and I have joined their group which has a very informative journal 4 times a year for a £9 subscription. There are links on the site for Fairground Ancestors as well. Good Luck, Ellen.

To be honest Freda I think you will find your 'traveller' is what we would call a company rep now. Travellers is a modern pc word and they would have been called gipsies back then or fairground worker. Give us the details of your gran and we will have a look for her. You could always buy her birth cert to get mum and dads names, then look for their marriage and get their fathers names and then get their birth certs for their parents names and marriage and so on backwards until you really hit brick walls.

Freda - I've got travellers and Hawkers - as luck would have it most of mine filled in census returns. It's the births and marriage returns that they weren't so hot on. If you do find them on the census it is well worth trawling a page or 2 in either direction as mine seem to have travelled in extended family groups. pm me if you want any more info. T.O.R. ;o))

hi, i have a book about tracing family trees and there is a section on travellers. some but not all were handed census documents to fill in (or be filled in on their behalf.) not many were recorded on the early census. they advise that you find the fair/theatre that they were with and then trace the route it took around the country (not gonna be an easy task) and then search the local parish records and newspapers.

In My experience, sometimes they are on the census, sometimes not. I know that doesn't help much! What names are you looking for? Pat

Ive come up with a brick wall as far as my husbands grandparents are concerned, I got a marriage cert last week to find out what his granmothers fathers name was and his occupation. I got his name and his occupation was traveler (deceased) the problem is that I can only find her on the 1901 census, I have heard rumours that she was related to people that went around with fairs would this mean that if they were travelling around with fairs that there would be no census taken for them. Freda