Genealogy Chat

As a beginner, I've really appreciated all the advice on these threads- So, can anyone advise? I'm looking at my ggfather. Got him thru census back to marriage in Cardiff,1881. Henry James Symonds, b.1845 Toft Monks,Norfolk,reasonably specific info. On 1881 he's on a ship in Cardiff, unmarried. On 1871 the only Henry that fits is on a ship off Norfolk,MARRIED. So. I've got that marriage cert. & he married Mary Emma Lacey. She's a 'sailor's wife' in Yarmouth 1871.In 1881,callled'Emma' but living with her mother so names etc fit,still'married'. Can't find her death but can find a marriage (for her?) in Norfolk 1888.I've been really interestd to read all the threads about divorce in those days, am I safe in assuming this is MY Henry and they just left this first marriage? Symonds is v common in Norfolk but I can't find another Henry to fit the birthplace etc. Any opinions??????

You might like to confirm that it is the same Emma- with the cert to match fathers name again. what do you know of your GGGrandfather? did he have your ancestor with Emma of someone else?

Not sure I follow this one. You say you have a marriage certificate for him to Emma? But that you think he married again or you think he died and Emma remarried?

The only Emma Symonds I can see in 1871 in Yarmouth is 45 , married and daughter of HUGHES. Class: RG10; Piece: 1789; Folio: 96; Page: 28; GSU roll: 830834. ---------------- The henry that fits ( I agree he fits!) Name: Henry Symonds Age: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1845 Relation: Mate Gender: Male Where born: Toft Monks, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Vessels Town: Well Bank North Sea County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Registration district: Yarmouth Sub-registration district: Yarmouth Northern ED, institution, or vessel: Gazelle Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 1 Household Members: Name Age Benjamin Banham 30 Robert Bullen 18 George Cate 25 Robert Chaston 21 Walter Green 20 John Mills 22 Henry Mingay 16 Charles Reese 25 Robert Spethett 15 Henry Symonds 26 Charles Turrell 41 Henry Turrell 56 Bit of an age gap if thats his wife though, isnt it ?

Sorry if I wasn't clear- I've been going round in circles! I think the Henry James Symonds I'm researching was born in Norfolk. Married Mary Emma in 1864. Travelled as a sailor, ended up in Cardiff and married Damaris Stephenson, 1881. Together Damaris & Henry became my grt grts. My confusion is, did he just abandon Mary Emma? Henry James born Toft Monks 1845 seems specific enough to be the Henry I know is mine in 1891/1901. It's the earlier marriage that confuses me.

Sorry about the Mary/Emma confusion (I'm new at this). On her marriage cert, 1864, she's Mary Emma. On 1871 she's MARY,age 25 b. Hasboro', Norfolk, with an 11 mth old( who died a few months later), listed as 'sailor's wife'. (He's not home, out on ship). On 1881 she's EMMA age 35 but living with mother of right surname (Lacey) still b. Hasboro'.

Ok, but how do you know that The Henry Symonds that married the Emma ( mary Emma) Lacey was YOUR Henry?? Just because of the geography??

Id just add - local knowledge and all that - Hasboro is spelt Happisburgh (yes, I know - thats Norfolk for you). I thought it may help if you are looking for the village. Not sure if you have the right people here at all. You would need to work backwards and find this Emma Mary/Symonds marriage cert. As you say, Symonds is a very common name in these parts. Ah, you have their marriage cert? Does that fit with your chaps father then?

sacrlet ribbons, Yes, I guess that's my question. If I need a Henry J, born in that tiny villge at that time and the only one I can find was already married to someone before grtgrtgrandma and seems to have left her alive to marry grtgrtgrandma, mustn't it still be him?? without the first wife I'd have happily said the data fits.......

I think you need to bear in mind there are two men of the same sort of age in the locality from the IGI 1. Henry Symonds - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 1843 Toft Monks, Norfolk, England Parents: Father: Richard Symonds Family Mother: Harriet 2. Henry Symonds - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Birth: 1846 Little Melton, Norfolk, England Parents: Father: Abraham Symonds Family Mother: Sarah A Both are submitted , so are not really reliable Either of these could have married Emma /mary Emma

Do you have the marriage cert for the Symonds/lacey marriage? fathers name for Henry?

To be fair, Little Melton is a good 30 or more miles from Yarmouth. But there are over 700 Symonds on the Norfolk Transcription archives site and thats far from complete.

I'm trying to be afir AND objective!! Lol! From 1851 census- his one fits the bap Name: Henry Symonds Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1843 Relation: Son Father's name: Richard Mother's name: Harriot Gender: Male Where born: Toft Monks, Norfolk, England Civil parish: Toft Monks County/Island: Norfolk Country: England Registration district: Loddon Sub-registration district: Aldeby ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 26 Household Members: Name Age Harriot Symonds 27 Henry Symonds 8 Richard Symonds 30 Richard Symonds 4 William Symonds 1 he's still at home in 1861 too

Heather, thanks for local info, it mostly says 'Hasboro'' on census,except when it just says Yarmouth! I got the marriage cert to try & research the family a bit more. All I know for certain is from recent censuses that fit with known descendants, that gives me: Henry James Symonds, born c. 1845, Toft Monks. Even in old age he was specific about 'Toft Monks'. Attacking it from births in Toft Monks, the only one I can fit grew up to marry Mary Emma. ( The father for Henry is RICHARD, fits the one on the birth/early census for Toft Monks). Can I take it then that he left Emma to end up in Cardiff? ( and marry again?)

What name is given for Henry 's father in the marriage cert? SORRY YOU SAID>>>>Richard

So that 1851 looks right for him then. Well, it sounds possible then, doesnt it - he wont be the first bigamist on the boards here. Luckily you arent descended from the Emma Mary. Its a shame it would cost another £7 to see if the kiddie she had has this chap as dad.

Really appreciate you guys taking time to talk this through! Don't know if I'm happy to confirm this Henry (I can go back another generation if so!) or not happy (he looks like a bigamist now.....!) Can't believe how hooked I've become in just a few weeks!! Heather- do you mean luckily re Emma/Mary? cos I'm descended from the 2nd (bigamous) marriage!!! I think I've found 2 more baby deaths for them too, maybe that's what drove him from Yarmouth........