Genealogy Chat

This woman has been eluding me for weeks and you wonderful people on here have helped me with her before but now I have another problem. The ladys' name was Elizabeth Rose, she was baptised on 18/04/1858 at Holy Trinity church, Stratford upon Avon. I have scoured the bmd on ancestry for her birth and the only one I could find was in the Sept quarter of 1857 Stratford on Avon volume 6d page 465, I applied for her birth cert from the gro with the names of her parents William Rose and Mary Sutton as checking points and the cert was not issued as the parents did not match. Can anyone offer me any advice on how to proceed from here please? Thanks Caz

As registration wasn't compulsory until 1875, you may find that her birth simply wasn't registered. Reg

Oh! thanks Reg I didn't know that. That probably explains that then. Thanks again for your interest. Caz

Hi Kathlyn, I've had some help from Stratford records office with this lady because she is really proving to be elusive. The records from Holy Trinity church only show the date of her baptism, should they show her date of birth as well? Caz

Caz, Try the church baptism records. Kathlyn

Reg, if you're still there I've been giving some thought to what you said about compulsary registration and it made sense at first until I remembered her siblings. She had siblings oth older and younger than herself whos' births were registered so it seems strange to miss out one doesn't it? I would appreciate your thoughts. Caz

Have you actually got bcs for the siblings, or are you saying there are registrations for Rose children with the appropriate names? If the birth reg was not for your lady, it seems that there were 2 Rose families in Stratford around the same time. Could the other birth regs you've found also belong to the other family? Jay

She's 3 years old on the 61 census so birthdate of 1858 is correct. Margaret

Hi Caz: Another thought is that the baptism didn't necessarily take place very soon after the birth. Sometimes it was years later, when the family suddenly decided to do a 'job lot'. From FreeBMD there are three Elizabeth Rose born between 1851 and 1857 in the Stratford area (and some of the years are not completely transcribed yet). Have you actually seen the baptismal entry? Sometimes the date of birth is given - it depends on the whim of the vicar as to what he entered on the register. Don't give up, I was always told that they will be found when they want to be found, and have discovered that that is pretty accurate. Just keep on trying - and of course she may not have been registered in Stratford district!! Good luck Sue King

Hi - Did they say both parents did not match? Sometimes putting less in for the reference check is better because sometimes it can be something simple like the mother's maiden name being spelt incorrectly on the cert or the father being recorded with a middle name or even a different first name (you know how they used to chop n change their names so much back then) - the GRO will only issue the cert if all the criteria matches what you have asked for. So, in this instance, I would be inclined to give the GRO a call and explain what has happened and ask if there is a way you could perhaps find out the birth address of this child (to see if it matches up with any you have already for her siblings). If you get a nice person on the other end they might tell you whilst you're on the phone (I've had similar help over the phone in the past) but if they are busy they may just say you'll need to re-order the cert without any reference check on it. It's a gamble, I guess, but in the absence of anything else to go on I would be inclined to chance it. The other thought that crossed my mind was this - is it possible that she was the niece of William and not his real daughter? Could he and his wife have 'adopted' her - for example if her real mother had died soon after giving birth to her? That's another area to investigate, I suppose. Again, I have seen this in my tree, where I found a child on the census with a couple of my ancestors and she was listed as their 'daughter' but I could not find her birth - some time later and with more investigating, I found out she was actually the daughter of the wife's sister who had died, but brought up as their 'adopted' daughter. Regards Athena

I sent off for a cert but never put the parents name in for cross checking.On the census parents were John and Annie.When i got the cert it was John and Sarah Ann.She was using her middle name? Annie

Hi Athena, yes the email said parents incorrect so assumed they meant both but you could be right it might be worth giving them a call to check on that.Whilst I am at it I think I will check the bmd for Rose or Sutton deaths around that time just in case she was their niece. Thanks for your help it is much appreciated. Caz

Hi all of you thanks for your interest. I haven't actually got the certs for the siblings but the baptism records have the parents as being the ones I'm looking for. There were two Rose families in Stratford on Avon at that time, one were quite well off as the father was a vet and mine who were less well off the father being an ag lab. I considered the possibility of maybe only one of the parents being wrong, I did put a note on that the mother's maiden name might be spelled Sutton or Tutton so I don't think it would be the spelling but I might well have put too much info as checking points. I was penny pinching if I am honest and I suppose I shouldn't do that but I have a list of certs to buy as long as your arm and with two Rose families in the same area I was trying to make sure th one I'd ordered was mine. I might have shot myself in the foot though so it serves me right lol. Thank you all for being so kind as to help me. Caz