Genealogy Chat

I have an ancestor who was born in NSW, Australia in 1825, the third of 3 children. I have her birth certificate which lists her fathers name. However, I can not find a birth listed for her father in NSW, so I looked into whether or not he could have been a UK convict. Sure enough there is a convict with his name, of the right age, who arrived in NSW in 1815, being 6 years before my ancestors siblings started being born. My question is, how can I find out whether this convict, and my ancestors father, are one and the same person? Is this possible, or do I have to draw a line at this branch of my tree ? Any suggestions gratefully received !

Hi Alison, there will be info you can find to track them, do you know where he was sent in Australia. It is 7.30pm here in Oz, give me time to put the kids to bed etc and I will give you some site names, Louisa

Hi Alison. One way you could check. I have the 1828 census of N.S.W ( Convicts and free settlers ) If his son was born c.1825 in Oz...... he, his parents, and any other siblings may be listed on it. Most convicts with familes are listed on the 1828 as Free by servitude, Ticket of Leave, Convict, Born in Colony, Government Servant, Conditional pardon,Free Settler, ect,ect.......so if you would like me to check to see if he is listed in 1828..N.S.W, let me know the surname and any forenames. Cheers. Tony Oz...:>))

Thanks for the replies. My ancestor was called Eliza Fowler, and according to the UK census (she married in the UK in 1846), she was born in Sydney NSW, c. 1823. I searched the NSW BMDs online and the only Eliza Fowler born around that time was born to a Samuel Fowler and wife Hannah in 1825. Eliza's marriage certificate from the UK states her father's name was Samuel Fowler, so I can only assume that this BMD record is my Eliza. Also according to her certificate Samuel Fowler her father was a shipwright at that time, that was in 1846. There was a convict Samuel Fowler sent from London to NSW in 1815 and he was then aged 12, but as I said before, I don't know if he is the same Samuel who is the father of my Eliza. If they can be found on the 1828 census that would be great. The NSW BMDs confirm that Samuel and Hannah had 3 daughters, Mary Ann, Harriet and Eliza all born by 1825, so they should all show on that census hopefully. Thanks again for your help.

Oh and Urban Girl, if my Samuel Fowler is the same one as the convict I found, then he arrived in 1815 on the Marquis of Wellington and according to the Colonial Secretarys papers, he was sent to Parramatta for distribution. From there I do not know where he went. But most importantly, I am trying to determine a link between this convict and the ancestor of the same name. Cheers.

Hi Alison, www(.)hotkey(.)net(.)au/~jwilliams4/scons(.)htm has details of ticket of leave, years 1824 and 1827 have a samuel fowler listed www(.)sag(.)org(.)au may have some info, or if you e-mail them they can give you pointers of where to look www(.)records(.)nsw(.)gov(.)au/archives/indexes_online_3357(.)asp then click convicts as you scroll down for more info, this is the state records site www(.)naa(.)gov(.)au is the national archives site and has a family history section including links to helpful sites www(.)sl(.)nsw(.)gov(.)au/ask/ is the nsw state library ask a librarian section. They can do look ups for electoral rolls. make sure you let them what samuels trade was and that he was in the parramatta area. They may be able to look at other records but i am not sure. I noticed that there isn't a marriage record in nsw for samuel and hannah, so I assume they were married before they came to Australia? Do you think that their daughter may have come back to the UK in the area that they came from? I hope I have given you a few sites that can get you started, regards Louisa

Hi Alison. A check of the 1828 census for N.S.W shows. 28 FOWLER surnames.Youngest 12 years of age....Oldest 63 years of age. Two Samuel FOWLER. Per household, and persons living at abode. Living in same Household 2 persons. Ref F1163 Surname: FOWLER First name: Samuel Age:27 years Free/Bond: Ticket of Leave Ship Arrival:Marquis of Wellington Year:1815 Religion:Protestant Sentance:Life Occupation:Brickmaker Place:Bathurst Ref F1164 Surname: FOWLER First name: Elizabeth Age:42 Free/Bond: Free by Servitude Ship Arrival:Lord Sidmouth Year:1822 Religion:Protestant Sentance: 7 years Occupation: Place: Bathurst ********************************************* ********************************************* Living in same Household 2 persons. Ref: F1164 Surname: FOWLER First name: Samuel Age:23 Free/Bond: Free by Servitude Ship Arrival: Neptune 3. Year:1820 Religion:Protestant Sentance:7 years Occupation: Weaver Place:Parramatta Ref# G0804 Surname: GORMON First name: Ann Age: 22 Free/Bond: Born in Colony Ship Arrival: Year: Religion:Catholic Sentance: Occupation: Housekeeper Place:Parramatta Other person: Samuel Fowler...Weaver Cannot find Mary Ann, Harriet or Eliza on 1828. Tony Oz

Thank you both for your help. The convict I was thinking of was the one that arrived in 1815 on the Wellington of Marquis, but I see that neither is listed in 1828 as living with a Hannah, which kind of rules them out maybe? I don't know if Samuel and Hannah were married before arriving in NSW, or even if they were born in Aus, or were convicts. I'll look at the sites you've put up Urban Girl, thanks, but I really don't know where to go from here.

Tony, Was there a Hannah Fowler, wife, listed on the 1828 censues ?

Hi Alison. There was a Hannah FOWLER on the 1828 but aged 12 years old. Born in Colony....Occupation: Boarder.....Living in Pitt street, Sydney. As a helpful tip, and only a long shot. The second Samuel FOWLER with house keeper Ann GORMAN Ann is an abreviation of Annie,Anne and also Hannah. Many Convicts could marry, and many did marry there servant/ housekeepers.....( as did my Wifes G,G,Grandfather ) in Tasmania. This is not to say that Ann GORMON married this Samuel, but it would be something i would double check, unless of course you are sure it was Samuel FOWLER 1815 ..Marquis of Wellington Cheers. Tony Oz

Thanks Tony, that's a very good point. I will look into that. I am not positive that my Samuel is the one which arrived in 1815, however his first child was born in 1821, so I guessed that it would have been too quick for the one who arrived in 1820 to have found a wife and had a child within 1 year. But it still doesn't explain the disappearance of the 3 children from the census. They were born 1821, 1823 and 1825 so should be showing. thanks again for all your help. Alison

Hi Alison. In 1821 Australia was only 34 years old as far as European settlement was concern. Many hundreds, possibly thousands of Births, Deaths and Marriages were not Indexed.at this early stage in the Colony. Many Convicts were also allowed to have their spouses and family sent for from the U.K Many also remarried, even still having spouses in the U.K ....Can make it difficult for research. Some were also not allowed to leave the Country and return to the U.K, so remarried. Samuel FOWLER marriages on the A.V.R.I FOWLER, Samuel EM 327903 Marriage Spouse: CHENHALLS, Honor Index Year: 1821 Reg Year: 1821 Reg State: New South Wales Ref Number: V1821188 8 Parish: Sydney, St Phillip's, Church of England FOWLER, Samuel EM 327904 Marriage Spouse: SIMPSON, Elizabeth Index Year: 1826 Reg Year: 1826 Reg State: New South Wales Ref Number: V1826264 10 Parish: Kelso, Church of England FOWLER, Samuel EM 327906 Marriage Spouse: PARKER, Mary A Index Year: 1836 Reg Year: 1836 Reg State: New South Wales Ref Number: V1836212 20 Parish: Field of Mars; Marsfield; Ryde, Church of England FOWLER, Samuel EM 327907 Marriage Spouse: PARKER, Mary Index Year: 1836 Reg Year: 1836 Reg State: New South Wales Ref Number: V183622 60 Parish: Sydney, Israelite FOWLER, Samuel CM 327908 Marriage Spouse: JACQUES, Hannah Reg Year: 1858 Reg State: Victoria Ref Number: 1488 FOWLER, Samuel CM 327909 Marriage Spouse: SMITH, Betsy Sharp Index Year: 1882 Reg Year: 1882 Reg State: New South Wales Ref Number: 6782 FOWLER, Samuel John CM 327910 Marriage Spouse: PARKER, Georgina Carol Marriage Place: W'Town Reg Year: 1883 Reg State: Victoria Ref Number: 354 Tony Oz

Thanks Tony, I may have hit a brick wall with this line, which is a shame. However, your first marriage listed looks interesting, Samuel to Honora in St Philips, as this is where my Eliza's birth was registered also, and her first sibling was born in 1821, same year as this marriage.

Just checked a Forename Thesauras for Honora. http://www.namethesaurus(.)com/Thesaurus/Forenames.aspx It does show Honora can be Hannah ( Soundex Matches ) Good Luck. Tony Oz...:>))