Genealogy Chat

I think this may be a long shot, but this woman is causing me problems. I thought I'd found her once, but I had the wrong one and had to scrub a whole branch off my tree!! All I know about her is that she was born in Birmingham about 1821-1825 ish in Birmingham. Her marriage certificate (1853, Dec, Harborne to Joseph Rose) states that her father is Charles Richards, Labourer and that she is of 'full' age (I think) I can't find her with her family in 1841, or a birth on IGI. Any clues where I could look next? Thanks Mandy

Do you think this may be her second marriage? I guess she has said single on the cert but I have dozey brides who have said that and it turns out they are actually widows? If she was born 1821 then 32 is late to marry? Do any kids look a bit dubious in the census, possibly brought along with her? If she had married say when she was 18 then in the 1841 she would be under her married name.

Same family in 1871:- Name: Sophia Rose Age: 43 Estimated birth year: abt 1828 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Joseph Gender: Female Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: 27 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 143 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Rose 45 Joseph Rose 9 Julia Rose 6 Mary Ann Rose 11 Sarah Rose 3 Sophia Rose 43 Kath. x

here is a thought that I would check for you if I could get into Ancestry.. Do you think that ' Charles Pritchard ' from the 1861 could be a mistranscriptin of Richards ?....If so it's POSSIBLE that he could be a her son from previous Marriage/relationship. A look on 1851 census to see if Sophia and Charles are together ! Either with a first husband OR her family ( maybe ) Esta x

This is the only Sophia Rose I can find in 1861 census born Birmingham with a husband called Joseph. There are children who were born before the date of the marriage you give:- Name: Sophia Rose Age: 34 Estimated birth year: abt 1827 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Joseph Gender: Female Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: Lady Wood ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 143 Household Members: Name Age Charles Pritchard 11 George Rose 9 Joseph Rose 36 Mary Ann Rose 1 Sophia Rose 34 William Rose 13 Kath. x

So a previous marriage is looking very possible. Hey, son Charles Pritchard??? Does the marriage cert say the hubby is a widower? He seems to have brought a couple of kids with him.

...although it says visiter it's still possible that he might be her son. Maybe who is visiting and normally lives somewhere else..

Thanks Heather, it does say that she is a spinster on the marriage cert, but I guess she could be a dozey bride too! LOL. Thanks Kathleen. At first glance I thought maybe this must be them and that they had been living as man and wife before the marriage with her taking his name as convienience. But then I remembered that Joseph had been married before in about 1847, I think I found the death of his first wife in 1853, the same year he married Sophia. Guess they didn't hang around. However, the names you have found are familiar and so is Charles Pritchard. Just going to look all through my folder.

Sorry Heather, Charles Pritchard is a visitor, not a son. Kath. x

Sorry, you've all added replies whilst I was typing that! Yes it is making sense now. Charles Prichard could be a mistranscription. He could be illegitimate, couldn't he? Oh my gosh, I think my brick wall is crumbling!

But her dad is Charles Richards....

A very BIG maybe.........based on limited info ! a possible first marriage of a Mr Richards to a Sophia in Birminham... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Mar 1845 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Atkins James Birmingham 16 273 Getfield Hannah Birmingham 16 273 Hayden Mary Ann Birmingham 16 273 HINCKS William Birmingham 16 273 Mc Cabe Thomas Birmingham 16 273 ***RICHARDS George Birmingham 16 273 ***Spencer Sophia Birmingham 16 273 SWEETMAN Mary Ann Birmingham 16 273

Hi Kathleen. That's the Sophia I found before. Turned out not to be mine, although I did have a lovely time researching her flippin family! LOL.

So dad was a widower, blown our theory then - LOL

This is the only Sophia Richards birth I can fnd on the IGI with a birth year of 1825 +/- 5 years in Birmingham, but the father's name is Daniel:- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SOPHIA RICHARDS Female -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: 13 APR 1825 Christening: 12 SEP 1825 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England Death: Burial: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Parents: Father: DANIEL RICHARDS Family Mother: MARGARET Kath. x

Mandy....I think you really need to see what 1851 says...If her father was called Charles it follows that she might have called her son after him...

I think you are right. Just been looking at the 1861 census at Charles Pritchard. It does look like Pritchard, but the ennumerator could have misheard? Plus he is only 11, which is young to be a 'visitor', don't you think? I think he needs investigating. A big thank you, Heather, Esta and Kathleen

I have found a death of Charles Pritchard in 1864 in Liverpool and another in 1865 in Birmingham. I suppose he could be one of them.

I haven't got very far at all! I've looked for Sophia Richards in 1841 and tried various spellings. Also looked for a sophia Pritchard, just in case. Can't find a birth of a Charles Pritchard or Richards that fits. I've looked for a previous marriage for Sophia. And I've looked for Charles Pritchard in 1871. Any other ideas?