Genealogy Chat

I do have the birth certificate for Ernest Fraser Josland. His father is listed as Frederick Josland and his mother Kate Josland, formerly Watson. This would suggest that they did marry at some point. We have had contact from someone who's descended from Bert Josland, Ernest's brother. She has recollections of Frederick dying around 70 years of age, with a young family at the time. I am guessing he didn't have children until much later in life. However Bert's mum was Janet nee Salter and there is only a few years between the brothers.

No, they went back!(maybe it isn them?????????) 1861 Charles J Josland 31 Exeter Charles J Josland 5 Paddington, Middlesex Edwin J Josland 2 Exeter Emma Josland 30 Exeter Fanny M Josland 7 Paddington, Frank E Josland 8 Paddington Frederick C Josland 10 Exeter(that C looks like a G) George C Josland 1 Exeter Civil parish: Exeter All Hallows On The Wall County/Island: Devon Country: England 1851 Name: Charles Josland Age: 21 Estimated birth year: abt 1830 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Emma Gender: Male Where born: Exeter, Devon, England Civil parish: Marylebone Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Middlesex Country: England with fredrick c again - aged 4 months

It looks as if the whole family(of Frederick) moved up from Devon, not just him) After the birth of Frederick and before that of Frank, IF fathers name tallies with Marriage cert - it looks right 1871 Name: Frederick C Josland Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1851 Relation: Son Father's name: Charles John Mother's name: Emma Gender: Male Where born: Exeter, Devon, England Civil parish: Christchurch County/Island: London Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: Christchurch Southwark ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 305 Household Members: Name Age Charles J Josland 15 Chapel St Tottenham Cord, Middlesex, Charles John Josland 41 Edwin J Josland 12 Emma Josland 40 Fanny M Josland 17 Harrow Road, Middlesex, Frank E Josland 18 Edgware Road, Middlesex Frederick C Josland 20 George C Josland 11 Gertrude E Josland 1 Harry A Josland 8 Katie E E Josland 3 Leila A Josland 5

For reference.... Marriage Dec 1875 Josland Frederick George St Giles 1b 917 1881 Frederick G. Josland abt 1849 Spreyton, Devon, England Head St Mary Abbott Kensington London Jessie Josland abt 1849 Midlothian, Scotland Wife St Mary Abbott Kensington London George F. Josland 1881 Kensington, Middlesex, England Son St Mary Abbott Kensington London Helen Salter abt 1824 Dumfries-Shire, Scotland Mother in Law St Mary Abbott Kensington London Possible daughter... Birth Mar 1886 Josland, Jessie Elizabeth Kensington 1a 183 Death Mar 1889 Josland, Jessie Elizabeth 3 Kensington 1a 121 1891 Fredk Josland abt 1852 Spreyton, Devon, England Head Kensington London Jessie E Josland abt 1851 Edenbridge Wife Kensington London Geo F Josland abt 1881 Kensington, London, England Son Kensington London Robert F Josland abt 1888 Kensington, London, England Son Kensington London Death Jun 1899 Josland, Jessie Elizabeth 50 Kensington.1a 131 1901 Frederick E Josland abt 1852 Devon, England Head Kensington London George F Josland abt 1881 Kensington Son Kensington London Robert F Josland abt 1888 Kensington Son Kensington London Elizabeth A Josland abt 1854 Devon, England Sister Kensington London Possible siblings for Ernest... Birth Mar 1904 Josland, Mildred Eleanor Kensington 1a 183 Birth Mar 1907 Josland, Bert Frederick Kensington 1a 157 You would need to check the certs to be sure though. Nothing after Ernest, and can't find a second marriage. 1906 will be the son born 1881.

I thought that possibly too. Not that i can find an apprpriate marriage for him either! well, not to a Kate/Catherine

Just to confirm Ann's thinking, a Janet/Jessie Elizabeth Josland died in 1899, so if that is the correct person she cannot be his mother - I think you could have missed a generation out and it was his son George Frederick Josland born 1880 who was your grandfather's father.. Jessie Elizabeth Josland Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Year of Registration: 1899 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun Age at Death: 50 District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 131 There is a marriage in 1906 but not to a Kate Watson George Frederick Josland 1906 Q3 Kensington Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 355 All on the page...... Margaret Harriet Berriman Harriet Emma Frost George Frederick Josland Wilfred Ernest W Smith There is a Kate Watson getting married in 1908, Q2, Kensington but not to a Josland. Gail.

Pretty sure this is them in 1901- elizabeth is fredericks sister Frederick is also a widow- so unless he was telling fibs, Janet/Jessie cannot be you blokes mother( you say his mother was kate watson) cant see a marriage Name: Robert F Iesland < Know as Bert perhaps? Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation: Son Father's name: Frederick E Gender: Male Where born: Kensington Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Kensington Sub-registration district: Brompton ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 35 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth A Iesland 47 Frederick E Iesland 49 George F Iesland 20 Robert F Iesland 13 ....................................... Do you have his birth cert? i think you need it Name: Ernest Fraser Josland Year of Registration: 1908 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Kensington County: Greater London, London, Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 163

1891 Name: Fredk Josland Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1852 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jessie E Gender: Male Where born: Spreyton, Devon, England Civil parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: St Lukes Redcliffe Square County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Kensington Sub-registration district: Brompton ED, institution, or vessel: 14a Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Fredk Josland 39 Spreyton Geo F Josland 10 Kensington Jessie E Josland 40 Edenbridge Robert F Josland 3 Kensington If Janet/Jessie was 40 in 1891 , I doubt she actually was his mother, if he was born 1908

My initial thought is that his mother re-married ( maybe his father died?) and he took a step fathers name Have you found his parents after marriage on census Janet/Jessie? 1881 Name: Frederick G. Josland Age: 32 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jessie Gender: Male Where born: Spreyton, Devon, England Civil parish: St Mary Abbott Kensington County/Island: London Country: England Street address: 94 Ifield Rd Condition as to marriage: Married Occupation: Carpenter Registration district: Kensington Sub-registration district: Brompton ED, institution, or vessel: 14a Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Frederick G. Josland 32 Spreyton, Devon, England George F. Josland 7 weeks Kensington, Middlesex, Jessie Josland 32 Midlothian, Scotland Helen Salter 57 Dumfries-Shire, Scotland

I am wondering if you hold any keys to my family history. My grandfather was Ernest Fraser Josland, b. 1908, he was born in Brompton, Kensington. His father was Frederick George Josland, b approx 1847 in Spreyton Devon. His mother was Kate nee Watson. We know that Ernest has at least one brother (half) Bert, his mother was Janet Elizabeth Salter (they married in 1875). Frederick had children later on in life and I wonder whether there are other siblings or wives?? Kensington appears to be the area and Ifield Road particularly crops up quite a bit. Now the mystery deepens. On Ernest's wedding certificate, to Emily May Sharpe his name is recorded as 'Ernest Josland also known as Witherden' and Emily took the name Witherden. I can not find when and how the name changed.