Genealogy Chat

I am trying to identify a marriage date for my gt.grandparents Alfred Mather b.1852 and Alice Frost b.1861. Both were born in Pancras, London and they had their first child in 1891. I have searched Ancestery, free BMD and FamilySearch but can only find a marraige for Alice Frost Dec.1887 in Pancras. I cannot match this with a marriage for Alfred. Can anyone please advise. Thanks.

there is this one Alfred John Mather Year of Registration: 1895 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Lambeth County: Greater London, London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 681 (click to see others on page) Alfred John Mather 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey =====View Record Alice Miller 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey View Record Mary Ann Radford 1895 Jul-Aug-Sep Lambeth Greater London, London, Surrey View Record John Henry Williams could it have been 2nd marriage?

I've found them on the 1901 census with two children (my grandfather b.1891 and his sister) so I assumed they married before 1891 and given Alice was b.1861 I have searched from 1880 to 1890 with no luck identifying the same date for both. Perhaps they never married but my grandfathers birth certificate shows his mother as Alice Mather formerly Frost. I thought marriage partners records would show the same page vol.no. and that's what I've been searching for.

If you can't find a marriage it usually means one of them was married before. Have you looked for them in every census? There's a Alfred who's married to a Jane Hughes Carter in 1881 and is a decorator. Rose

She died in 1885: Deaths Sep 1885 Mather Jane Hughes 28 Pancras 1b 69

Is this the family in 1891? Name: Alice Mather Age: 29 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Alpis Gender: Female Where born: St Pancras, London, England Civil parish: St Pancras Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity Town: Kentish Town County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Kentish Town ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Alice Mather 29 Alice E Mather 6 b. Notting Hill Alpis Mather 38 (Alfred) Occ: decorator Gwatt Mather 11 (?George) b. Marylebone Reg

Can I just check with you that you have viewed the images in the section with full records? Reg

I found this Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Frost Alice Helena Brentford 3a 120 Meadon Elizabeth Brentford 3a 120 >>>Miller Alfred Brentford 3a 120 Neal William Brentford 3a 120 Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Mather Alfred John Lambeth 1d 681 >>>Miller Alice Lambeth 1d 681 Radford Mary Ann Lambeth 1d 681 Williams John Henry Lambeth 1d 681

Dear Portland Rose What do you mean when you say if you can't find a marriage it usually means one of them was married before. Is that why I can't find any reference to my g.gran's second marriage? Her first husband died 1877/1878 so her second marriage was sometime after that. The 1891 and 1901 census shows her as 'wife' and on her death certificate the informant (her husband) was shown as widower. Liz

Liz, What Rose means is that if you are looking for a marriage using a woman's maiden name, then you won't find it if she has been married before, because the second marriage reference will be under the first married name and not the maiden name. Kath. x

Thanks for help here. Reggie you have hit the nail on the head with the 1891 census. I have been looking at full records but I passed over the details you have given because of the name 'Alpis'. I now realise this is the family (the address is given s 27 Hawley Road and my family were living at 25 Hawley Road). The two children had left the home by the 1891 census. I had made the assumption they married a bit later in life and my grandfather was the first child! As she had her first child at age 18 I will go a little earlier with my search for the marriage details. Thanks again.

Thanks Kathleen. Unfortunately, I still can't trace the marriage between my g.gran and g.granddad. I know all about my g.gran and her previous marriage and children. On my gran's birth certificate her mother is shown as MW, late A, formerly C, father is GW. Sorry I can't put the full names as a descendant of my g.gran's first marriage (who is on GR too) only shares info with family members, so obviously I respect her wishes. I had assumed from the birth certificate that my g.grandparents were married. Also on my g.gran's death certificate the informant is listed as GW, widower of deceased.