Genealogy Chat

If someone was adopted. Do they have two certs? One original, one adopted? Also... If a child was born in another country due to parents being in the army, Where would that child be registered? Gerri.

The original birth could be found in the overseas section on the Findmypast website (pay per view). Sorry - not sure about adoption, but I think there will be another certificate. Kath. x

Thanks kath...as usual your a star. Gerri x

My Mother was born in Peshawar, India (now Pakistan) while my Grandfather was serving in the Royal Artillery in 1919. All she had was an 'Army' birth certificate that stated that a 'live female child' had been delivered of her Mother on a specific date. When she first wanted a Passport, back in the seventies , we had to supply both her Mother and Farthers birth certificates as well as her Army Certificate and she was then issued with a proper Birth Certificate, It appeared that in those days the Army never bothered to properly register the birth! Hope you have a easier time than this. Roger

www.familyrelatives.org have FREE overseas BMD indexes

I have two certificates - a full one in my birth name and a short one in my adopted name.

Thanks everyone. All your replies are I'm sure going to be very helpful. The biggest problem we have is... This person was born 1955 in Singapore and was adopted soon after.(we think,England) His adopted Mum is refusing to tell him anything, not even his birth name! He says he has never seen his birth cert. Talk about brick walls! I think we have a steel one here!! Gerri x

Try this website..... I think it has the BMD Indexes up to 1968 in the Asia Pacific & Africa collections. www.bl.uk/collections/oriental office.html You can search www.a2a.org.uk for document references to a lot of material in the asia, pacific and africa collections. Worth a try, don't know what it's like though, I never have had to search overseas yet!!! Good luck. Kind Regards ~ Stella ~

hope you manage to get this sorted his adopted mum may not have his proper birth cert -= a friend of mine is adopted and has never had her birth cert, only the adopted one. Have a search through the threads - there are some very informative posts on adoption. Good luck! Laura

I'm trying to find my mum's family and she was adopted. when her Mum died she applied for her 'real' certificate. There is def two

Yes, I think there are two. I have one in my adopted name (a short one) but I looked myself up in the birth index and I'm there under my adopted name. Fortunately I was able to double-check because there is a photocopy of the birth registration document in my file so I do know what date it was done. But, yes, there should be two.

Two certs 1 is a certificate of adoption. Issued in the post adoptive name and looks like a short birth cert. It is NOT a birth certificate and there will be no matching ref for the cert in the bmd index. The other is the original birth cert, recorded in the birth name and that one can be found in the bmd index in the usual way. The original birth cert will usually have the word 'adopted' written on the cert, the adoption certificate makes no mention of adoption, if you were to place the two certs side by side there is no way to match the two certs to the same person. Only one birth cert is ever issued because someone can only be born once. Glen

If your friend was adopted in England or Wales he/she would appear on the Adopted Children Register in his/her adoptive name. You can apply through the GRO website and apply for the full adoption certificate. Adoption certificates are issued once the adoption has been granted in the court and the adoption placed on the ACR. Full Adoption certificates will give you absolute concrete details of the adoption, adoptive parents name and address, country of birth and the name and date of the court where the adoption order was granted. If there is no reference to your friend on the ACR he/she was not adopted in either England or Wales. Adoption certificates give no reference to the name of the birth mother and father. Since 1975 all adopted children in England and Wales have the legal right to their original birth certificate and to apply for their adoption file... this is regardless of the adoptive parents wishes... all they have to be is over 18 to apply. Go to the web pages www.gro.gov.uk click into adoptions and follow the links. Hope this has helped... let us know how you go :-) Cheers Gerry

Thanks again everyone. Geraldine I hope you dont mind but I copied n pasted your reply onto Ken. I thought when we started on this mission it would be impossible but thanks to you lovely lot on here, we can now see a light at the end of the tunnel. Watch this space and I'll def get back to you all. Gerri (the other Geraldine) x

Hi Gerri Given that Ken was born in Singapore he would have been born within a small community, chances are the adoptive mother may well know (or of) the birth mother and the circumstances of his birth... also, in the 50's adoptive parents were often given the original name of the child in order to register with a Dr's surgery. Names only changed officially once the adoption order is granted in the court. No worries about forwarding the posts onto Ken... happy to help. Cheers Gerry (sometimes a Geri too)

Yes they have a birth cert , and when adopted a adoption cert that , more often than not gave their new , given name. From there on when filling in any form and asked for birth details they would give adoption info. as this would be all they knew , and would be enough to get all legal input , with out birth name they are unable to gain any back ground info.Hope this makes sense if not plz get in touch with me if I can be of any help. Frankie

save for me thanks