Genealogy Chat

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Any Suggestions On the 1851 Census my Great-Grandfather Thomas Sullivan age 13 was living at 44 Maria St. Shoreditch. I have not found him on any Census until the 1891 & 1901. He was married in August 1881 age 44. On his death cert. in 1911 it gives his occupation as General Laborer and Army Pensioner, no information as to his regiment or service number. The informant was his wife. As an Army Pensioner he would have done 20+ years in the Army. Assuming he was still living in Shoreditch when he joined, any suggestions as to what Regiment he may have joined and are there any Census records for the various regiments. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Malcolm

If he was overseas, there wouldn't be census records......... Have you looked for him using just the initial of his forename? Service personnel are sometimes recorded in that way. Reg

What was his wife's name? Could this be him in 1861 (says married but maybe they just said that):- Name: Thomas Sullivan Age: 22 Estimated birth year: abt 1839 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Lambeth St Mary Ecclesiastical parish: Waterloo St Andrew County/Island: Surrey Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Lambeth Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road First ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 222 Household Members: Name Age Ellen Sullivan 1 John Sullivan 3 Mary Sullivan 21 Mary Ann Sullivan 2 Mo Thomas Sullivan 22 Thomas Sullivan 4 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 366; Folio: 58; Page: 38 Kath. x

Malcolm If he was in the army and you cannot easily find him on the 91 and 01 census it could well be he was out of the country serving abroad at that time. Just because he was living in Shoreditch at the time of engagement doesn't necessarily mean he would have joined a local regiment. It is easy enough to go to Kew and locate any records for the army during this time period (records of this time are very well preserved) they are listed alphabetically. My Great Granddad was in the Leicester Regiment (living in Worcester at time of engagement) and served abroad in Bermuda, Halifax Nova Scotia and Barbados from 1886 to 1902 which meant he was also in the Boer war for the 1901 census. The records which are held contain gems such as physical descriptions, next of kin and address as well as their army record of where they served, which ranks they attained etc etc etc. The best bit for me was knowing my g granddad had tattoos (maybe not!!) and seeing his original signature and holding the papers he touched!! Hope that's been of some use to you.

There's a Thomas Sullivan in the 81 census who was born abt. 1836, Stoke Newington. He's a Chelsea Pensioner & Instructor of Volunteer Soldiers. Problem is he's already married with 4 children, the eldest being 11. His wife is Rebecca Elizabeth. Any chance he's yours? Margaret

Thanks for the replies all. On my last visit to England I did get a chance to visit Kew but as time was short I didn’t get to look at every thing I wanted to. Without knowing his regiment there was too much to research in the time I had. I was hoping to get a lead as to his regiment from his place of birth. I know it was a long shot but worth trying. His wife’s name was Sarah Bayliss; she was sill living at home on the 1881 census. Cheers Malcolm

Have you got his marriage Cert? This cert will give his occupation and if still in the army possibly his regiment. Have you got first child birth cert? If still in the army this cert will give his occupation and possibly regiment? At age 44 in 1881 he will have completed his stints of 11 years each stint, making 22 years in all and joining at approx 18 will probably have fininished his army career by age 40. In 1891 he will be 54 and in 1901 he will be 64 and is VERY unlikely to be stilll in the army at these ages. Whilst army folk were unable to marry before age of 30 back in the mid 1800's to get married at age 44 for the first time was considered rather old. Yes, it obviously did happen but have you thought that this may be a second marriage? If you have the Marriage Cert this would probably be stated. If he was 44 in 1881 then that could possibly mean a birth in 1837. Have you got his Birth Cert, or is he just outside the start of the 1837 Registration? If you had a Birth Cert you may find his father was in the army which may give you a clue to the regiment. Did his father have brothers who went into the army? You have found him age 13 on the 1851 Census. Was he working at that point and what was his father's occupation and where was he born? Any older brothers and where were they born? Had he got brothers who joined the army as this may also give you a clue? Many people have ancestors who are in Army Families. I have such a family and going sideways and backwards and purchasing various certificates has now led me to most of the regiments I am interested in. There is a good chance he fought in the Crimea War as that was 1854 to 1856 as he would have been 18 in 1855 and could easily have falsified his age to 16 or 17 to get in to the war. The Crimea War was the first 'Modern Battle' and many young men would have wanted to get out of their poverty in London. Mine 'escaped' to the Crimea fom the drabness of an Ag Lab existence. For this mid 1800 period unfortunately you do need the regiment before you can proceed. Unfortunately Sullivan is almost as bad as Smith. There are thousands of them all over the country with the name of Thomas! We have several in Southampton. Janet

This is the marriage........... Sarah Baylis 1881 Jul-Aug-Sep Salford Greater Manchester, Lancashire Thomas Sullivan 1881 Jul-Aug-Sep Salford Greater Manchester, Lancashire Reg

On the 1881 census for my Great Grandad the info given was that he was in the Army: Nrth camp Aldershot A B & C lines - Private 56th Regiment- and it gives a list of all the other soldiers in the same regiment and the area they were sent to. Kind Regards, Stella.