Genealogy Chat

Too true OC It's a bit like those sites that offer to sell you copies of 'your' family crest or certificates giving surname meanings. Quite a lot of those are very suspect and the people selling crests neglect to explain that not everyone with the same name has a right to use a crest! I read the messages on the Soc Gen Medieval forum because occasionally one has relevance to my own research but a lot of members on there are American and professional genealogists. From 'listening in' to their discussions it looks as if there are genealogists who have done an enormous amount of work on Gateway Ancestors. I hadn't come across the term before so was interested in reading a bit about the idea. I couldn't say offhand what percentage of Americans can genuinely trace their ancestry back to one of the earliest settlers (not necessarily the Pilgrim fathers) but it is true that many of those settlers have well documented ancestry and descendants. This is what was said earlier this year on that forum about the idea.......you might find the latter part of this posting and the links attached interesting (remove brackets) http://listsearches(.)rootsweb(.)com/cgi-bin/ifetch2?/u1/textindices/G/GEN-MEDIEVAL+2006+531111049770+F Best wishes Sue

Susan Whilst I accept that many Americans have Gateway Ancestors, there are many more who THINK they do, but don't, on examination. It is a miracle that the Mayflower didnt sink before it left Port, judging by the number of people supposedly on it. A tree containing Holdens is bandied around Ancestry and the LDS site - all descendants of a Justinian Holden, who was on the Mayflower. He married and all Holdens in America can 'prove' a descendency from him. FACT - no one called Holden sailed on the Mayflower. FACT- the only Justinian Holden I can find being baptised anywhere within 100 years of the Mayflower, was actually a GIRL, and the name reads Iustinia, not Justinaian. OC

If you have the information from the IGI then be very doubtful. I found my family on there back to William the Conqueror. The line was correct back to a lady called Ann Mason in the early 1800s. On the IGI alone there were hundreds of Ann Mason's who could have been the one who was the mother of my ancestor. How did the person submitting the information identify the correct one? I, and a number of other distant family members have tried without success. Most of us don't believe the link, others who have sent the same information to me go strangely quiet when I ask to see the proof of the identity of Ann Mason.

Jessica It has taken me 30+years to get my family tree back to 1633, with about 700 to 800 names all verified, and that has been relatively easy in a few small villages in the same county. I am not sure how long it would take me to verify your tree back to the 1400's, but I do not think I have enough years left to be of any help to you. Certainly once you get beyond 1538 you are in extremely grey territory indeed, unless you are on a Royal Tree somewhere! If you are not on their main line tree, well yes maybe your ancestor link to royalty was born on the wrong side of the blankets, if you understand my meaning. There are many of those around but even they have difficulty proving a link! I presume you have done the checking yourself, with the medieaval knowledge required to get this far back? I know that trying to research some books myself, dating back to the 1500's in the British Library was very hard work with the Latin and Olde English as well as the French. It was very interesting, but a real baptism of fire! If this tree has been done purely on the internet in about a year, then my advice would be to have a real hard look at your tree and try again, making sure that you cross reference all the data you obtain as you go along, and that takes a lot of time and effort. But, if you do it this way, you will not need anybody else's advice and will be comfortable with the tree that you have. One of my husband's ancestors by the name of O'Sullivan went down with the Lusitania according to family legend, but detailed research has shown us that the O'Sullivan who did drown on the Lusitania was not the same O'Sullivan belonging to his family. Janet

I was very interested to see the programme on TV last night about the Tudor Banquet at Haddon Hall, because I 'think' I can see a line back to the Vernon family in my own ancestry. I don't actually expect to have the time and opportunity to check that out in detail until I have retired - about 20 years - but it can wait: they're all dead, and are not going anywhere!

If anyone thinks they have found a link back to nobility then they do need to double check everything against well researched sites and original documents where possible. There is a medieval genealogy group and you can search their archives at http://listsearches(.)rootsweb(.)com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=GEN-MEDIEVAL remove brackets. This genealogy site is one which is very well researched and trustworthy http://www.genealogics(.)org/index(.)php Watch out for any trees you may find online with no sources quoted. There are a lot of enormous trees on the Internet which have been created by people with a lot of time and enthusiasm but some are great works of fiction! It isn't often understood that a lot more Americans can trace their ancestry back to the Middle Ages than modern Europeans. This is because a lot of Americans do know some of their ancestry back to a few of the first settlers. The very early ones were often the younger sons and daughters of nobility and are known as Gateway Ancestors because they are the link back to early genealogies. On the other hand the majority of people still in the UK are unable to get back beyond the beginning of Parish records. To find a medieval link in the UK you need to find an ancestor whose genealogy was documented back into the Middle Ages and that was normally only true of those of noble and royal birth. So go carefully.........double check everything and enjoy discovering the new ancestors when proven to be yours. This is when history and family history become very much the same. Sue

Of course, lots of people ARE descended from Royalty! However, as the Royal in question is so far back, you really do need to do some PRIMARY research for yourself, which means you will need to go to records offices yourself and carefully check each step backwards. This could take you years! You simply cannot rely on anything you have found on the internet, even if it is historical fact - you have to prove YOUR link into the 'historical fact'. This means finding the primary record of each birth marriage and death in your line. This information will run out prior to 1556-ish, then you need to look at Wills and so on, and there is a black hole of records in the 1400s. Sorry to sound so negative, but as other posters have said, it only takes one 'fact' to be wrong, and the whole thing is rubbish. But of course - you may BE a descendant of Royalty - they had plenty of descendants. OC

Ron's right and I'm not a professional researcher, I never accept it till I've the evidence from the registars office myself, others take things too much on trust and if someone has made a mistake it impacts on the rest of your tree - everything further back is wrong Helena

I don't want to criticise you at all, but. We see many trees from customers that contain Royalty. If the customer says that's their family line then so be it but as a genealogist of many years I have to ask the question, are your sources checked and verified 100%. A lot of family historians latch on to someone else's tree that links into theirs and assume it's gospel. I personally do not enter anybody into my tree until I know the information is checked and verified and is 100% accurate. Now I'm not saying that this may be the case with you or your tree. We had a chap talking to us at a family history fair recently, he admired the 9 x 3 foot tree that we display behind our stall, that's a big tree he said, how many people are on that and how far does that go back, when I told him that it contained 850 people and went back to 1560 his reply was that he had more people than that. I thought here we go, so I asked him how long he had been researching his family. About a year he said :0))))))) I replied how did you get all those people and get that far back in a year, easy he said, I got them all of the internet. Now if someone adds his tree to their tree ?????? See what I mean. Ron www*genealogyprinters*com

I've checked my info quite a few times and it seems that i am. Is anyone quite expert at geneology that could check through my trees? It just seems a bit too good to be true. It's on my maternal grandmothers side which ar ein USA but have traced back to England and Wales and back to Henry II of England (Plantagenet line). I can send Gedcom files if needed. Thanks in advance Jess x