Genealogy Chat

Hi, I have a bit of a puzzle I am trying to work out in my history and was wondering if anyone with more experience in geneology could help.... My G.G.G Grandmother, Gertrude Cotton, had a child named Bertha Rogers in 1885 (found through the census) although she did not marry a Mr. Rogers until 1889. After marrying him, she named her first son George Cotton (have birth certificate, 'father' is left blank), although he is registered as Charles Rogers on the 1901 census (Charles being his middle name). George Cotton is my G.G. Grandfather and I have the surname Cotton, but surely I should be a Rogers?! Gertrude left the country for Canada c. 1912-15 with her other children having put George in the Navy. We think George may have died, but cannot find any information on him as every census he gives a totally different date of birth, but he did not go with her. Do you think that both Bertha and George may have been illegitimate? I cannot find a birth registered for Bertha either with the surname Rogers or Cotton. Does anyone have any thoughts on what may be going on here? Any fresh ideas would be greatly appriciated! Also, has anyone been in the situation where someone you *know* is related to you is on this site but isn't answering their messages? I have found many matches with the same person, including my father (!) so I know that our trees match but they don't answer their messages. There's nothing I can do I guess? Thanks for any input, Hannah

If the children were born out of wedlock, then they would be registered in their mother's name (Cotton). The father's name would be left blank on their birth certs unless he was physically present at the registration and acknowledged to being the father. Therefore I would say that both George & Bertha were illegitimate, and would be registered with the surname Cotton. It is very common for children on the census to ''adopt'' the surname of the mother's husband - even if he wasn't their natural father. This is true both for illegitimate children and also step-children (i.e. where the father has died & the mother remarried). However, usually their official surname would be their birth surname - so you might find them on the census with the name Rogers but they would have married with the name Cotton. You don't say where Bertha & George were born, but there are several Bertha births on FreeBMD in 1885 +/- 1 year: Ada Bertha Cotton 1885 Apr-May-Jun Wandsworth London, Surrey Alice Bertha Cotton 1885 Jan-Feb-Mar Belper Derbyshire Bertha Cotton 1884 Jan-Feb-Mar Warrington Cheshire, Lancashire Bertha Cotton 1884 Apr-May-Jun Belper Derbyshire Bertha Cotton 1885 Jan-Feb-Mar Market Harborough Leicestershire, Northamptonshire Bertha Cotton 1885 Jan-Feb-Mar Wellington Sal Shropshire Bertha Cotton 1885 Jul-Aug-Sep Chester Cheshire, Flintshire Bertha Eveline Cotton 1884 Jan-Feb-Mar Alverstoke Hampshire and is this George? If so then the Bertha in Market Harborough would be closest: George Charles Cotton 1887 Jul-Aug-Sep Loughborough Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire Incidentally, there's no reason to assume that you should be a Rogers - just because Gertrude married a Rogers in 1889, does not imply that he was the father of her children from before the marriage!! Richard

Thanks for your reply. Gertrude Cotton was born in Newington in 1859/1861 (only going on census records), Bertha was apparently born in Clapham in 1885, and George Arthur Charles Cotton in 1896, Lambeth. I cannot find a record for Bertha as being a Cotton or a Rogers, and I know for a fact that George is registered a Cotton, but on the census is a Rogers. If they are both illegitimate, is there anyway I can trace their real parents? I'm thinking not as father is not listed... I'll try to clarify as this is complicated: Gertrude Cotton: Has children: Ellen Rogers, 1893 (name given on 1891 and 1900) Bertha Rogers, 1885 (Lambeth, name given on 1891 and 1901 census) ' ' Gertrude gets married to George Rogers 1889 Has son named George Cotton on birth certificate (1896) As well as two more sons, also given as Rogers on census ( I do not have the birth certificates for these)

I'm sure this must be Bertha: Births Jun 1885 Cotton Ada Bertha Wandsworth 1d 544 Rose

here's Ellen: Name: Ellen Constance Cotton Year of Registration: 1892 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec DISTRICT: Lambeth County: Greater London, London, Surrey Volume: 1d Page: 450 Clapham comes under Wandsworth so the above reg for Bertha looks right, too. It's probably worth getting the birth certs of Bertha & Ellen, as there is a possibility that the father could be named on these. If not, then the only real hope you have of finding out who their father was is to find their baptism entries - you *might* just get lucky and find that the father's name was recorded at the baptism, but don't count on it!

...thinking wildly outside the square..... Can you give dates for all the children - I'm wondering if there is 9 months between them - is there a possibility that there is a Gertrude Rogers(nee Cotton) and a Gertrude Cotton in the same area at the same time and you have mixed two of them up???? What addresses are given on the birth certs you have? On The birth cert where she is married to Rogers but her son is named Cotton, how is her name given - it should be Rogers formerly Cotton - anything else and we really start wondering Gertrude born June Q 1859 Newington 1d 235 Peter

Here are the others in 1901: Charles Rogers 5 Lambeth Ellen Rogers 8 Lambeth George Rogers 50 Gertrude Rogers 39 James Rogers 2 Isleworth Sydney Rogers 9 months Fulham Sidney's birth: Births Sep 1900 Cotton Sidney Herbert Fulham 1a 288 Beginning to look like all the kids were listed under Cotton. Rose

Spoke too soon: Births Mar 1889 Rogers Herbert James Brentford 3a 113 Rose

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm going to get Bertha and James' certificate and have a look at that, I wasn't sure that the Bertha from Wandsworth was the right one, so thanks for confirming that. On George's birth certificate (1895) Gertrude is given as a Cotton. I have her marriage certificate to George Rogers in 1889, and she is living with him on the 1891 and 1901 census so I don't think it can be a case of two Gertrudes. I'm beginning to wonder if Mr. Rogers registered James and Gertrude did the rest! Why do you think she changed the names on the census? Do you think he knew his children were not registered as Rogers?!

I have now ordered Bertha's and James' birth certificate. Interested to know who registered James' birth! Anyone got any ideas on what might be going on here? Had any similar occurances? Also, going back to my first post, has anyone had a match with several people on one person's tree but no response from that person? It's driving me mad! I know he must be related as he has many of my relations, including my father (not me or my mother though) although I don't recognise his name at all! Thanks everyone, any light shed on this is stopping my brain working overtime!