Genealogy Chat

My gr.gr,aunt Jane Andrews, born (I think) in Liverpool to parents from Mayo Ireland, in 1848. I have found her in the census 1851 and 1861. I have found that she married, William S. Houlton in 1888. They owned/ran the Devonshire Hotel in Harrogate, till he died in 1893, and she kept on as a wine agent/pub owner after that (same place). Do not know when or where she died. Have heared that she was Lady in waiting to the Duchess of Nice. That must have been some time between 1861 and 1888. Does anyone know if there was a Duchess of Nice? How do I go about finding out if the story is true? I hope someone can come up with some answers for me. Thank you for taking time to read this.

Astrid can you post the 1891 census details for Jane & William? Georgina.

Sorry, but I have not found them in the 1891 census it. Still looking. Astrid

Astrid William died in Yorkshire.. Deaths Mar 1893 HOULTON William Samuel 32 Knaresborough 9a 81 Georgina.

Georgina, Thank you. I have got him down as: died 2. Jan. 1893 in Harrogate. Astrid

Astrid - 1891 (Jane's ageing very gracefully - reckons she was born 1853 !!) RG12; Piece: 3521; Folio 9; Page 10 Living Devonshire Hotel, Devonshire Place, Harrogate Mary Cawood 25 single domestic servant born Darlington, Co. Durham Jane Frances Houlton 38 wife born Liverpool William Samuel Houlton 31 head hotel proprietor born Carlton, Notts She's not jumping out at me on 51 or 61 - what were her parents called?

Hi, Thank you. That is the couple. (ladies are allowed to lie about their age - ?) Getting a lot of info, but not what I was asking about. I have Dickens works, they belonged to aunt Jane, also a few ofther bits and pieces, that is why I am quite interested in what she did, and what happened to her. Astrid

Astrid - I asked for parents names in case she could be found on 1871 or 1881 as you hadn't said you had her on those. Liverpool to Harrogate is quite a move (in terms of the people she would have been associating with) so just wondered if 71 & 81 gave any clues

She was getting on a bit when she married - was it a first marriage? Might she have been a ladies maid, rather than a lady in waiting? Harrogate was rather select, due to it being a spa town and people going there to take the waters. Jay

Astrid, have you got either of them in 1881? Have just had a quick look and can't immediately spot either of them. Jay

Sorry, didn't see that you asked for parents names. Father: John born 1816, Mayo, Ireland - joiner Mother: Mary born 1821 Mayo, Ireland lots of other siblings: Mary, William, Edward, Patrick Ellen, Ann, John, James, In 1861 (I think) they lived in: New Bird St., Liverpool (Toxteth) Astrid

1861 possible Name: John Andrews Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Mayo, Ireland Civil Parish: Liverpool Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Liverpool Sub-registration district: St Thomas ED, institution, or vessel: 25d Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 228 Household Members: Name Age Ann Andrews 8 Edward Andrews 20 Ellen Andrews 10 James Andrews 3 Jane Andrews 13 John Andrews 45 John Andrews 5 Mary Andrews 40 born Mayo Mary Andrews 24 Patrick Andrews 18 William Andrews 22 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 2679; Folio: 79; Page: 46; GSU roll: 543011 43 New Bird St John, William, Edward and Patrick are listed as joiners Jane and the younger children born in Liverpool - rest of the family Ireland

Hi GB Good morning. Yes, thats them. Thank you for taking time too look them up. Regard Astrid

Astrid if she was a lady in waiting for the Duchess of Nice she could have been in france for the 1871 & 1881 census's. Sorry not much help. Georgina.

1871 for ref (parents & some siblings) RG10; Piece: 3793; Folio: 39; Page: 4; Living 16 Brindley St, Toxteth Anne Andrews 18 Ellen Andrews 20 James Andrews 14 John Andrews 16 Mary Andrews 55 [not 35 as transcribed by ancestry] now a widow Patrick Andrews 26

Thank you Georgina and J i S I will keep on searching and asking in the fam. someone may come up with new information. regards Astrid

I've checked carefully and Nice has never been a duchy, so it wouldn't have had a duke or duchess. However, the following might be of help. On the assumption that your family history had been passed down orally rather than in writing, I was looking for a word that sounded like Nice: Knyaz Kniaz’ or knyaz is a word found in some Slavic languages. It is usually translated into English as either Prince or Duke, although the correspondence is not exact. The etymology is directly related to the English King, the German König, and the Scandinavian konung. It was probably borrowed early from the Proto-Germanic *Kuningaz, a form also borrowed by Finnish and Estonian (Kuningas). The title is pronounced and written similarly in different Eastern European languages: Bulgarian: (knyaz), in fem. (knyaginya) Croatian: knez Czech: knez, in fem. (= priest(ess)); kníže, (=princ(ess)) Hungarian as (so like kenéz) Polish: knia Romanian: cneaz, chinez Russian: (knyaz'), in fem. (kniaginia) Serbian: (knez), fem. (kneginja), (knjaz), fem.(knjeginja) Sorbian: knjez Slovak:(= priest(ess); knieža, in fem.(=princ(ess)) Slovenian: knez, in fem. kneginja Ukrainian: (knyaz'), in fem. (kniahynia) Montenegrin : knjaz, in fem. knjaginja In West Slavic languages, such as Polish and Sorbian, the word has later come to denote 'lord', and in Czech, Polish and Slovak also came to mean 'priest' as well as 'duke' (kníže, knieža).

Thank you. I will copy this to word for future reference. Astrid

Could be the family story has become changed over the years, chinese whispers style, and she was actually a lady's maid to a duchess in Nice?

Being a bit facetious but have you checked if there was maybe a pub/hotel called the Duchess of Nice? Cliff