Genealogy Chat

Hi All I've just received a marriage certificate and the couple married at the Queen Street Meeting in Stepney. It then looks like it says 'according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Independent Dissenters' (but I'm not sure about the dissenters word). Would this make them non-conformists? I've looked on google but cant see anything specific for Queen Street, Stepney. Also I've seen Quakers mentioned, are they different to non-conformists or independent dissenters or do they all come under the same umbrella, so to speak. Would the bride and groom have had to be of the same beliefs to get married in these places? Thanks Michelle

Quakers held/hold their gatherings in 'Meeting Houses' So it seems entirely feasible that the marriage was performed under Quaker rites....... Reg

Thanks for that Reg. So are Quakers one and the same as non-conformists? Michelle

Well, in a way, as non-conformists covered a range of breakaway 'churches'. The 'non-conformist' bit means that they didn't conform to the standard Church of England way of worshipping. I think googling might prove fruitful........... Reg

Thanks again I'll go and google then and see what I can find Michelle

I rarely disagree with Reggie, but in this case your ancestors are not Quakers. I believe Quaker marriages would be performed in something like 'the Friends Meeting House'. Quakers do not speak of Churches and chapels. What you have there is one of the many, many independent, non-conformist churches and chapels. Dissenters merely means they disgreed with the established church - i.e. the C of E. Although Quakers are, strictly speaking, non conformist dissenters, I have never seen them referred to as such. E.g. - 'Quakers AND Dissenters', suggests that Quakers were a faith apart. Hope that makes sense. OC

Yes, O C that does make sense, thanks Would the independent dissenters religious ceremonies of marriage etc, be recognised in the same way as if they'd been performed in a C of E church? Michelle

Some Independent churches were licenced to perform marriages, and some werent. The ones which weren't will usually say something like 'Registrar Attended', or be signed by the Registrar. But I should imagine that your church WAS licenced to perform marriages - you can check this out by seeing how many other marriages were performed there. Incidentally, these nonconformist chapels and churches often amalgamated with others, changed their names, moved etc, so yours may have been a very short-lived chapel, or may just have changed its name. OC

Just had a quick look on google - non-conformists covered a wide range including Baptists, Quakers and the Salvation Army. It seems that before the 18th century they were treated unfairly in that, so far as University education went, they wouldnt be awarded degrees and also were not allowed to enter Parliament. There were eventually reforms in the law to change this. It also says that within their own faith, the expected level of conformity, and the consequences if they didnt acheive this, were harsher than what they would have suffered in a C of E church. By the way, the marriage certificate I have is signed by both a Minister and a Registrar. But its an interesting subject I will definitely look into some more, although I dont know if its harder to trace records from these places Michelle

Acorns, I have a marriage cert with almost those exact words - different place. 'In Maulden Meeting House according to the rites and ceremonies of the Protestant Dissenters.' I know the family were methodists. I was thrown by the words Meeting House too, but am sure they are not Quakers. OC is right (dare I say as usual! :-) Anne PS This was 1861 and there was a registrar present as well as the minister. The registrar made the marriage legal, the minister conducted the service.

Hi Anne Yes I think O C is right too. I've also just read that on the 1851 religious census there were almost as many non-conformists as members of the Anglican church. Didnt realise there were so many of them as they're the first ones I've come across in my own family. Just goes to show though! Michelle

Little Acorns One good thing about non-con records when you can get hold of them - they are usually far, far, more informative than C of E records. I swooned with delight at the Pole Lane Registers for Darwen, Lancs. They held a census in the area in 1819, knocked on every door, wrote down the names of everyone, their dates of birth AND - wait for it - the names of the parents of each child. So I get information like George, born 1 Jan 1799, at High Street, his father Joe, a shoemaker, and mother Hannah Fish born 1 Jan 1759, the daughter of Fred and Mabel Fish of Upper Bogworthy Farm.Hannah Fish is now the wife of Charlie Bloggs of New Street. OK, they arent all this full, but many are. All nonconformist registers can be found catalogued as RG.4 in County Records Offices. OC