Genealogy Chat

see below in a mo.

The facts: My great-grandparents were Richard Thomas Miller (b.circa1836 Newent Glos) and Mary Ann Newman (b. c.1832 Hartpury, Glos, have possible christening for her). They married 1865(have cert) at Hartpury, fathers shown as Thomas Miller and George Newman. I have them both on various census from 1851 – 1901, but can’t find either of them on the 1861 (though poss have her as a servant in Gloucester), and can’t find them on 1881. I have, so far, been unable to find a christening/baptism for Richard Thomas, or find out anything further about his father Thomas. Mary Ann Miller died at 3 Freestone Row, Kettering on 31st March 1899. I have Richard Thomas Miller on the 1901 at Freestone Row, Kettering. NOW FOR THE PUZZLE: Having just received the death cert for Mary Miller, was trying to locate Freestone Row, Kettering on an old map, so put ‘Freestone Row, Kettering’ into Google and searched. Up popped a letter, written by a Thos. Miller of 3 Freestone Row, Kettering, dated 27th Jan 1914 – although not clear who it was written to – relating details of his time spent in the Crimea in the ‘10years and 98 days’ that he served, leaving May 20th 1857. My first thought was that this must be Richard, being called by his middle name, but the dates would not fit with the other info that I already have (I have Richard as an apprentice shoemaker on the 1851 in Hartpury, so he could not have been in the Crimea for over 10 years and left in 1857, and 10 years earlier he would not have been old enough to serve – in 1847 he would only have been 11 years old). I have so little other info about Thomas that I haven’t been able to locate him on any census, but will now have another look – am supposing that he must have been born c.1815 for Richard to have been born c.1836, so if this is him writing the letter then he would have been around 99 years of age. Thomas Miller is not shown with his son Richard Thomas on the 1901 at Freestone Row, so is it possible that he would be there 13 years later? Oh, how I wish I could get my hands on the 1911 census!! Any ideas which needle in which haystack I should start with? Regards Looby

On the marriage certificate what was Richards fathers occupation? Georgina.

Hi Georgina Cabinet maker - which doesn't help a lot!!! regards Looby

Is this the family mistranscribed in 1841? Richard senior is a Carpenter... Amelia Meller abt 1837 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Charlotte Meller abt 1806 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Elizabeth Meller abt 1833 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Louisa Meller abt 1839 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Richard Meller Senr. abt 1811 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Richard Meller abt 1835 Gloucestershire, England Chedworth Gloucestershire Source information: HO107/363/9 Registration district: Northleach Sub-registration district: Bibury ED, institution, or vessel: 14 Folio: 28 Page: 19 (click to see others on page) Line number: 21 GSU Number: 288775 Georgina.

There is this Thomas Miller in 1841 who's a carpenter:- Name: Thomas Miller Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Northamptonshire, England Civil Parish: All Saints Hundred: Northampton County/Island: Northamptonshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Carpenter Source information: HO107/814/4 Registration district: Northampton Sub-registration district: All Saints ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Folio: 7 Page: 7 (click to see others on page) Line number: 10 GSU Number: 438882 Family members:- Hannah Miller abt 1816 Northamptonshire, England All Saints Northamptonshire Thomas Miller abt 1816 Northamptonshire, England All Saints Northamptonshire

Thank you both, but don't think either is correct, everywhere I can find him my Richard Thomas Miller is shown as being born Newent, Glos, and I know he was in Hartpury on the 1851, but thank you both anyway. I have just trawled the death registrations after the date of the letter I found (27/1/1914) in either the Kettering district or Gloucestershire and the only one I can find is Apr 1917, a Thomas Miller, Kettering aged 84 - far too young for Thomas, but would be about the right age for Richard Thomas - now I'm totally confused!! regards Looby

The 28th regiment didn't get sent to war until 1854, so he could have gone with them then. Richard would have been old enough.

Hi Orangeblossom below is text of letter, which is all I have to work from at the mo, any help greatly appreciated: regards Looby (will split letter as it seems to have overrun the maximum text - will post end in a mo) Letter (March 1914) from Thomas Miller, late 28th Regt. 3 Freestone Row, Dalkeith Place, Kettering, Northants, 27th Jan. 1914. Dear Sir, You requested me in your letter to give a short account of my experiences in the Crimea. I cannot give you a long one, so I must be brief, considering so many years ago and my memory, caused through blindness and age, becoming very leaky indeed. After enlisting into the 28th Regt. I was then sent to the Isle of Wight, where I stayed a few weeks, then I was drafted out to Malta, thence to the Crimea; landed at Balaclava, distance of about 4 miles from where the 28th was encamped. On arriving at the camp, we were soon met by Colonel Adams, the Commander of the 28th, and he gave us a some encouraging words of advice and told us he hoped we should prove ourselves good soldiers and patriots to our country. In repsonse we gave the brave old gentleman three cheers, then we went off to our respective companies. In the tent I and my comrade was ordered to join there happened to be an old soldier who had been all through the campaign, so we were soon at home with him, and got all the information concerning the use of the Minnie Rifles, for we had to give in the fire arms - the old Brown Bess - and take in place of it the rifle we did not know anything about. Our position soon taught us something about it. I took every opportunity to make myself acquainted with the use of it. Soon I became proficient and classed with the first-class shots. We found the duties very heavy upon us. Before the fall of Sebastopol, night after night, either on the trenches or working, often when we thought we should get a night off, we warned either to go on fatigue, to go to Balaclava to fetch biscuits for the stores, then the day following warned for guard or some other duty. Often cold and hungry and thirsty, not much time to think about our dear friends and the comforts we left behind in the dear old country we loved so much. The day before Sebastopol, after nearly a fortnight of heavy sieging, we then had to make an attack upon the town to take it by force. The 28th had to be the reserve while the other regiments of the 3rd Division under the command of General Eyre. On the morrow, we - the 28th - had to become the storming party. We lay under arms all day waiting for orders; during the day the French took Malakof and a round tower called the Crow's Nest. Then the English was able to take the Redan, a very strong fort indeed the key to the whole town. The Russians spiked all the guns before they retreated from the Redan. The fore-mentioned forts, belonging to the French lines, had to be retaken before the English could hold our position. When that was done the Russians soon had to vacate the town, which they did during the night. They blew up their magazines, set fire to the shipping in the docks, and sank the rest in the harbour, between the town and the north side, where another very strong fortified place, to our annoyance, which commanded the town. The Commander could see what was being done and what was the intention of the French and our army to destroy the docks. It was accomplished with great difficulty and loss of life. After the town was taken we had not quite such times to endure, but the weather became very severe. I had many narrow escapes at times. On one occasion, working in Sebastopol, getting firewood out of the houses, we were seen by the Russians from the north side, which opened fire upon us, we were compelled to make preparations to leave the town at once having no rifles with us. While the officer in command was numbering us off with our loads upon our shoulders to march away, I saw the smoke from one of their guns. Knowing it was meant for us I gave the alarm and had just time enough to step aside. It passed by me and struck the next man, cutting off both legs. On another occasion leaving the trenches one evening, a shell was fired from the enemy. It blew off a man's head standing by me, of our regiment, the blood and brains flew on my face and on my belts.

END OF LETTER FROM PREVOUS MESSAGE To relate all the scenes I had to witness memory fails me to tell, but I assure you we had much to endure, more especially the 28th Regiment and other Regiments that passed through the campaign. From the time I joined the 28th Regt in the Crimea, I never left it until I left at Davenport; never had a pass or leave all the 10 years and 98 days. At one time before the fall of Sebastopol, we were all very lousy, could not be avoided. Officers as well as men were affected with lice, which kept us all well awake when on duty. We were glad when we were able to overcome the nuisance by the help of the dear friends at home. Towards the close of the war, by the help of of the friends in England, we had plenty to eat and clothing and wooden huts to live in. Soon after peace was restored our brave General Eyre left us with the 9th Regiment; our Regiment did not leave until the following Spring, May 20th 1857. We lost more from sickness and frost bites, caused by the privation that had to be endured, than by fair fighting. In passing through the Dardanelles we passed by on the left Scutari, where many of the sick and wounded were. That benevolent lady was Miss Nightingale, whose name will never be forgotten by the army. Dear Sir, I must curtail this account for my blindness and age and ill health will not permit me to say more; I hope it will suffice. I remain, yours respectfully and obedient, Thos. Miller

Perhaps the date of leaving the army written in the letter is wrong. Maybe it was 1867 instrad of 1857. By the way, I have tried googling the address in Kettering and can't find a letter anywhere in the results. UPDATE - just read your reply giving the letter. It might be a puzzle, but what a lovely letter to find. Hope you can work out who is who eventually. Kath. x

Kath google 'Freestone Row Kettering' on google, but leave it on 'the web' rather than 'pages from the UK' - for some reason if you try and narrow it down it disappears. regards Looby

I wonder if there's a way to track his military history. It doesn't all seem to make sense lol Crimea only lasted from 1854 till 1856. He must mean that he was with the regiment for 10 years, unless he meant 2 years. I wonder who has the original copy of that letter. I'd email the author of the site and ask them about it. It's very fascinating!

Found it now Looby. Mind you the first paragraph might give a clue - he says his memory is a bit 'leaky'. Could be his dates are wrong!!! Kath. x

The 1857 date is when the regiment left the Crimea after the war. Thomas (Richard)) says he was sent to the Crimea a few weeks after he joined up, after the start of the war, but before Sebastopol, so he joined up in 1854. This would mean that after the war he stayed on in the army until 1864. Fits nicely with birth in 1836 and marriage in 1865. Richard says he's a reservist in 1871, and reservists were usually ex-soldiers. Also explains why he's missing in 1861. Richard has an older sister Elizabeth in 1871 -- if they had the same father then he'd have to be well over 100 in 1914.

Robin think you're right here - must be Richard Thomas, not Thomas, hadn't spotted that on the '71, I must admit. Just need to work out if he used 'Thomas' rather than Richard anywhere else- might be why I can't always find him!! If the age of 35 on the '71 is correct he would have been 18 in 1854 - think we may have solved it - thank you to everyone - all I have to do now is try and track down the original document, and see what else I can find about his military career. many thanks all Looby