Genealogy Chat

Hi All, To follow. Paul

Hi All, Here's my puzzle, A George Carey married a Mary Harford in 1841 Wiltshire in 1851/61 census they run a pub, no children 1851 - Beer House Keeper, New Inn, Lower Seagry St Mary's parents are living at the address. HO107; Piece: 1836; Folio: 725; Page: 10 1861 - New Inn, Lower Seagry St RG9; Piece: 1285; Folio: 67; Page: 8 Wiltshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1841 CAREY George - HARFORD Mary Great Somerford Chippenham C33/1/9 Wilshire bmd show the following Children 1864 CAREY Florence S, Christian Malford, Chippenham, HARFORD, CM/5/433 1868 CAREY Edward D, Christian Malford, Chippenham, HARFORD, CM/6/208 1869 CAREY Lily E, Christian Malford, Chippenham, HARFORD, CM/6/351 Now in 1871 they appear in London George is Head, Emily wife ?( Where's Mary) RG10; Piece: 699; Folio: 29; Page: 12 Mistranscribed surname Emily Caney 27 Wife Flore Sus Caney 6 Dau George Caney 42 Head Edwd Del Carey 3 Son Lilly Ela Carey 1 Dau Mary Harford 13 Visitor I cannot find a reference to a death for Mary Carey and neither can I find a Mary Harford (the visitor) born Middlesex c1858 Any idea's Bye Paul

How about this Mary in 1861 Harford Name: Mary Jane Harford Age: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Daughter Father's name: John Mother's name: Mary Ann Gender: Female Where born: St Georges Pimlico Civil Parish: Westminster St John the Evangelist Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View Image Registration district: Westminster Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 127 Household Members: Name Age Eliza H Harford 5 Mo John Harford 25 John C Harford 4 Mary Ann Harford 27 Mary Jane Harford 2 Mary M Plumley 36 Thomas Plumley 36 Michl J Tebay

Not got much time at the moment, but perhaps Emily is Mary mistranscribed or just using another name (and age!) for some reason? Have you found a likely marriage for George and Emily between 1869 and 1871? As for Mary Harford age 13, birth registration wasn't compulsory at the time she was born, so it is possible that her birth wasn't registered. You might have to try looking for her on the previous census to see if you can find out who her parents were. Kate.

No, wait a minute, surely the dates suggest that the George married to Emily is a different one from the one married to Mary? If George and Mary got married in 1841 they wouldn't have had their first child in the 1860's, would they? I'll have to look at this later when I have time... Kate.

Hi, Good God you're fast. I've just nipped out to make a cup of tea. Thanks Paul

Oh, I do have something: Marriages Sep 1864 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carey George Lambeth 1d 550 Marriages Sep 1864 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aldus Emily Lambeth 1d 530 Barnwell Henry Lambeth 1d 530 Duke Jane Elizabeth Lambeth 1d 530 Harford Emely Lambeth 1d 530 Harford Emily Lambeth 1d 530 I bet that 550 is a mistranscription for 530, though I don't know if the kids will give me enough time to check! And very likely Aldus is another surname for the same Emily, to add to the confusion! Kate.

There is this birth in 1857:- Mary Elizabeth Harford, Sept. qtr. 1857, Lambeth, 1d, 261 That would make her 13 at the time of the 1871 census. Kath. x

The birth dates of the children suggest a second wife especially as no children shown in 1851 and 1861. Is the age of George correct on 1871 census. Would make him born in 1829 and very young to have married in 1841. Maureen

Okay, it's quite hard to be sure, but looking at the images, I think it is more likely that the page number for George is correct as 550 and Emily / Emely Harford's has been mistranscribed and should also be 550. But they are all quite hard to make out. Emily Aldus's page number is definitely 530, so perhaps she is a different Emily! Anyway, I bet George Carey married Emily Harford, but whether it's the same George who married Mary, I'm not really sure! Kate.

Hi Kate, The childrens names fit perfectly with George Carey and Mary (Harford) and the births are all registered in Chippenham, Wiltshire. Lily E Carey is registered there in 1869. It's what has happened between 1869 and the 1871 census that I am trying to work out. Many thanks Paul

Well, I still say that Emily is the mother of the children, but my advice would be to get the birth certificate of one of them to check. If it is the same George, then my guess is that Mary died before 1864. Kate.

Hi All, I've just had visitors arrive so have to shut down. Please be patient and I'll be back asap. Many thanks to you all Paul

This is a possible death for Mary from FreeBMD: Deaths Dec 1863 Carey Mary Chippenham 5a 45 but without age at death it's hard to tell how likely a match it is! Kate.

hello it would seem that emily remarried by 1881 and known as emily writt?. she has got lily and florence with her. in 1891 she is living with edward delores carey and is known as emily wiett. the visitor on the 1871 census would appear to be emilys sister mary elizabeth as her father henry had died and mother susannah was living as dependant on children. regards lee

Hi All, Many thanks for all your help in solving my puzzle. George Carey was married to Mary Harford in 1841. They ran a pub as shown on the census for 1851/61. I think you are correct and Mary Harford died. George married Emily Harford but I have to validate this. This would explain why all the children's mother's name was Harford. Mary's death in 1863, new wife who could bare children. Emily Carey/Wiett/Writt was related as you said to the Harfords since Adeline Harford is recorded as a neice and is staying with them in 1881 at the Board School, Newport St, Lambeth. Many, many thanks to you all. Even with the info you supplied it has still taken me some time to work it all out in my head. I thought I was pretty good at this but it only goes to show that there are others better than you. Your help has been very much appreciated. Bye Paul

Clarifying my thoughts: George Carey born Seagry, Wilts married Mary Harford, daughter of John and Elizabeth Harford in 1941 George and Mary appear in Wiltshire in 1851 (both aged 30) and 1861 when George was an inn keeper. Neither George or Mary were to be found in Wiltshire in 1871. There are deaths for 2 George Careys in Chippenham district Q2 1863, and Q4 1865, one Mary Carey in 1863 - no ages on index at that stage so don't know if these are your George and/or Mary There is a marriage for a George Carey (not necessarily yours) and Emily Harford in Lambeth in 1864. Three Carey births between 1864 and 1869 in Wiltshire with Harford mother's name are more likely to be children of George and Emily than George and Mary as by then Mary would be 43 - 48 George, born Wiltshire (but no menton of Seagry) and Emily in 1871 are in Clapham with the three children. This George was a beer seller which fits, but claims to be 42 which is the age your George was in 1861 - so either lying about his age because he had a young bride, or a different George. Emily Harford was with parents Henry and Susannah in Lambeth in 1861. Her father was born in Wiltshire (Sutton Benger) so if it is the same George Carey perhaps he married a cousin, or neice of his first wife? UPDATE - sorry, I was typing this while you posted, but will leave it on in case you want to consider those George Carey deaths and the age discrepancy.

Hi All, I've found a marriage for Emily Carey to Thomas William Wyatt Lambeth 1d 564 Sept 1876 Could explain the William Witt/Wiett Look forward to your opinions Thanks Paul