Genealogy Chat

Well, he could be; it doesn't look as if whoever put them on the IGI had a clue! But if so, then again, there is not much online for Ireland either... what you need is for somebody in your family to find a little cache of documents up in the attic! Kate.

I'll try that Kate,thanks.This is all intriguing but very confusing-Mum thought Francis Smith senior was Irish!

Karen, on the search page, don't fill anything in except for the parents' names (well, if it is the IGI search you have to choose British Isles in the Region, but if you go onto the main search you don't). Just put Francis Smith in the father's name and Henrietta in the mother's name and you will get 19 matches on the IGI British Isles, with your 4 at the top. Nosing around a bit more, there is a birth entry for 'Francis Schmidt or Smith' listed under Germany, added by an LDS member, so it looks as if he/she wasn't even sure if Francis was born in England or Germany. So it could be that Francis and Henrietta were both born in Germany and got married there. Francis's name would probably be Franz Schmidt, in that case, but I'm not sure what the German for Henrietta is. Anyway, looking for a Franz Schmidt will no doubt be just as bad as Francis Smith, except worse because there is not much German stuff available online! Kate.

Kate, where did you find the page that gives Francis' name as Smith/Schmidt? I don't know my way round the IGI very well yet.All I've found on there is the marriage entry, not even the children.

Karen, it could just be that the person who put them up onto the IGI had a copy of the same certificate and got the information from there (judging by the fact that Francis junior is the only one whose full date of birth is given on the IGI, very likely! If you do a 'parents search' on there for Francis Smith and Henrietta, you will see what I mean. Looks as if all they had was Francis's birth cert and the 1901 census, just like you!). If only they weren't Smiths, I would suggest getting birth certificates for some of the other children to see if it is the same spelling of Flaacke on those. BUT one thing I did notice on those IGI entries is that for the other children apart from Francis junior, the father's name is given as 'Francis Schmidt or Smith', so there is a new line of enquiry to try!!! If you look on the Guild of One-Name Studies website at http://www.one-name.org/ there is somebody on there researching the name Flack with variant Flacke, and it has her email address on there, so it might be worth sending her an email just on the off-chance that she can help. Kate.

Kate, I did wonder whether Flaacke was spelt wrong on Grandad's birth cert, but as it is spelt exactly the same on the IGI, altho the record's pretty useless, it makes me think that is the correct spelling.

Yes, I thought the name looked more Dutch or Flemish, but the only Flaackes I've found anywhere are on Rootsweb, all in the USA, & they seem to originate from Hannover.

Just thought I should mention that the surname Flaacke finds no matches on FreeBMD at all! I can't find any on the GenLias database (Dutch civil registration) either, so bang goes my theory about it being a Dutch name. There are a very few on the IGI for Germany, and presumably there will be other spellings of it. I don't suppose you have managed to find birth registrations for William and Elizabeth so you could get their birth certificates and find out where the family was living when each of them was born? (William's birth should be pretty close to the 1881 census.) But William Smith and Elizabeth Smith, born in London... needle in haystack time! Kate.

the double a in Henrietta's name looks more like Dutch than German. Jim

Oh, o.k., and the 1901 census helpfully gives all their birthplaces as 'London'. The family I found in 1891 isn't them. Back to the drawing board... Kate.

My grandfather is Francis Smith junior, & the elder Francis Smith ie the father is the one who married Henrietta.

Karen, is your grandfather one of the children on the 1901, or was he born after that census? I'm just asking because I have found a possible family in 1891 but they seem to have a different mother, so I'm not sure whether to post them up or not! Kate.

Hi Jim. They were living in Ravenscroft St, Bethnal Green in 1901 & my Grandad's birth cert says he was born at 51 Cowper St, Finsbury. Altho I live in the Midlands I have a London A-Z & looking the 2 addresses up they are very close,less than a mile apart I'd say, in the Shoreditch sort of area, so I presume they would have married somewhere round there.

The census gives both their places of birth as London, altho Mum thinks Henrietta's family were German, but isn't sure.

where do you expect the marriage to be? Where was the first child born? Jim

Karen, those IGI entries sound like pure guesswork and should be ignored completely! Does the 1901 census give Henrietta's birthplace? Her surname looks foreign, perhaps Dutch? So I'm just wondering if they could have got married abroad? Kate.

I wondered if they never married but the weird thing is the IGI has their marriage but it's very vague. Their names were Francis Smith & Henrietta Flaacke.I can't find one single Flaacke in the BMD marriages for 1867-1883. The IGI has both born c1862 & married c1882 in England(very helpful).According to the 1901 census (the only place I've found them) he was born c1852 & she c1853 & by 1882 they already had a child! Don't know what to make of it all.

Karen, try posting up their names on here and lots of people will help you search! Of course, it is possible that they didn't get married, though, or at least not to each other... Kate.

OK. Kate,thanks for the suggestions, I've tried them all to no avail. I've searched every BMD page from1867, when my great-grandmother would, I think, have been about 14, to 1883, 3 years after the birth of her first child, every quarter, & no sign. Do I just give up on that line?

Karen, there are a few possible shortcuts: If they got married before about 1913, try on FreeBMD at http://freebmd.rootsweb*com/cgi/search.pl (replace * with .) If they got married between 1866 and 1920 try on Family Relatives at www.familyrelatives.org You have to pay on that site but they have a full name index for that period (don't put any middle names in on your search, though.) Check on UKBMD at http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/ to see if there is a local BMD site for the county or area you think they would have got married in - some of them go from 1837 up to the 1950's or even more recently, and many of them have started with marriages first. Oh, and of course FamilySearch at www.familysearch.org - worth a try as it is another free one! Kate.