Genealogy Chat

If people were living in sin and had children, then married 24 years later, would they lie about their age? I have recieved marriage cert for My William Teer and Lillian Taylor married 1915. First child born 1891 ( have cert ), Third child b. 1897.(have cert). The marriage cert states that Will was 23 and Lill 21. Since this is the only record I can find on BMD for these names, Im at a quandry? Her full name was Lillian Elizabeth Schofield Taylor. I've since found a marriage 1895 of William Troy ( poss mistranscribed ) and Elizabeth Schofield (8e 440). Could her name have been lazily written down as schofield being the first bit of a surname?? I do beleive that she was cut off from her family cause they didnt approve of the husband?? Jackie

Sounds like you have the wrong couple to me. I can't see that a couple in their 40's would claim to be in their 20's when they married! I take it that this is the marriage: Marriages Jun 1915 Taylor Lilian Teer Salford 8d 263 Teer William S Taylor Salford 8d 263 If so, then this looks like William's bith, giving an age at marriage of 23, which ties in with the age on the marriage cert: Births Jun 1892 Teer William Stanley Salford 8d 1 ... and is this Lilian, if so would give an age of 21 in 1915 which again fits the marriage cert details: Births Dec 1893 Taylor Lilian Elizabeth S Sheffield 9c 471 Richard

I have a relative who was disowned by her family because they thought she married beneath herself . She had a double barreled last name . Because they disowned her she dropped the last part of her name. But when her son married he added it back onto his name. Ancestors.............hard work or what. Jayne

Jackie have you found this couple on the census's before they married? Was their first born child named William? If it was could it be his marriage you have found in 1915? Georgina.

Hi Richard, Jayne, and Georgina, Thanks for replying. Yes Richard that is the one I was referring to. First born son was Leo James not William, so it couldnt be the son. Seems strange that there could be two William Teers and Lillian Elizabeth S. Taylor's.Ive traced them back on the census's so I'm pretty sure I have the right family. On the childrens birth certs it says Lillian was born Manchester not Sheffield ( so it's definitely not her!) Geez...why cant I find this marriage? Any help would be appreciated. Jackie

Hi Jackie What is the exact wording of the mother's name on Leo's birth cert? - i.e. does it say ''Lilian Teer formerly Taylor'', also what middle names are on there for both her and William? Not sure what you mean about the mother's place of birth - that info is not shown on a child's birth cert!! Having said that, I'm sure that the couple who married in 1915 (who claimed to be 23 & 21 on the marriage cert) are not the same couple who gave birth to Leo in 1891! Even if Leo's mum was 15 at the time of his birth, that would still make her 39 by 1915 so no chance of her pretending to be 21 !!! And where does this William Troy / Elizabeth Schofield marriage in 1895 fit in? Both names are too different to the two that you're seeking, so I would say that it's probably not relevant. Maybe your William & Lillian just never married? Cheers Richard

The other mssing piece here is the fathers' details from the 1915 marriage cert. There's a Lilian E S Taylor age 7 in 1901 whose father Robert Stopford Taylor is a bone-setter, like his father before him. In the censuses there's a Daniel and Ellen Teer who had a son William Stanley Teer in 1862, presumably the father of Leo etc. In 1901 Daniel and Ellen turn up with a grandson William, possibly illegitimate, who could be the 1915 groom.

Hi Richard and Robin. Exact wording on Leo's birth cert is ' Lillian Teer formerly Taylor'. As Far as I know William did not have a middle name. According to my FIL Lillian was Lillian Elizabeth Schofield Taylor. This is why I mentioned William Troy and Elizabeth Schofield. Found on BMD using soundex. So was wondering if Teer could have been mis transcribed as Troy and that the registrar or whoever wrote the cert couldnt be bothered to write Lilians full name? As for mothers birthplace, sorry, got that from the censuses. Thanks for taking time to give me a hand on this. Jackie

Hi Jackie The 1895 William Troy / Elizabeth Schofield marriage was in Burnley, Lancs: - In 1891 there is a William & Bridget Troy & family living in Burnley. - In 1892 Bridget Troy, aged 37, died in Burnley. - In 1901 the same William Troy now has wife called Elizabeth. Therefore I would say that the 1895 marriage was this William Troy marrying his second wife. It certainly doesn't appear to be connected with your family! The William Teer in the 1915 marriage does have a middle name - starting with S according to the BMD index. You say that you have the marriage cert - if so then the middle name should be written out in full on that? As Robin said above - what were the fathers names on the marriage cert, for both William & Lillian? Should then be able to find them with their families in 1901. Richard

First, working back from the 1915 marriage: 1915 William S Teer, aged 23 on marriage cert (you don't say his father's name) in Salford married Lilian Elizabeth Schofield Taylor 1901 William Teer aged 12 iving with his grandparents Daniel & Emma Teer in Moss Side 1891 William Teer aged 2 living with parents William S Teer 28, underclothing manufacturer's salesman, born Salford and Emma H Teer 28 in Salford 1888 William Stanley Teer married Emma Hall Donnison in Salford 1881 William Stanley Teer aged 18, salesman of cotton, living with parents Daniel & Ellen. MEANWHILE 1891 Q2 Leo Teer born in Manchester, parents William Teer and Lillian Teer, formerly Taylor 1891 census Leo aged 2 months living in Salford with parents WIlliam Teer, 29 born Manchester, job merchant, and Lilian Teer 24 born Manchester. SO either the two Teer families are nothing to do with each other or William Stanley Teer had two families on the go* in 1891! Either way the William who married in 1915 is not the father of Leo born 1891. Strange that your FiL knew the names Lilian ELizabeth Schofield. You refer to 'my William Teer' but don't say what the relationship is - could you be related to the 1915 couple and not to the parents of Leo? *Merchant and salesman are similar occupations and this theory would explain no marriage for William & Lilian, but there was another William Teer born in 1862 in Salford as well as William Stanley there was WIlliam John, who could be Leo's father. He appears on the 1871 census with parents John and Lydia. Can't find him on 1881 but his parents had moved to Yorkshire by then.

Hi everyone again, I think we can rule out the Troy/Schofiled marriage, and the 1915 marriage. heres what Ive found on census's: 1901 William Teen Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Lillian Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Ashton under Lyne Ecclesiastical parish: Ashton under Lyme St Peter County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Ashton-under-Lyne Sub-registration district: Ashton Town ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 243 Household Members: Name Age Ethel Teen 3 James Les Teen 9 Lillian Teen 20 Lillian Teen 6 William Teen 40 View Original Record View original image 1891 William Teer Age: 29 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Lilian Gender: Male Where Born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St James County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Manchester Sub registration district: St George ED, institution, or vessel: 13a Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Fanny Brereton 30 Matilda Brereton 11 Leo Teer 1 month Lilian Teer 24 William Teer 29 View Original Record View original image 1881 Name: William Tear Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where Born: Manchester Civil parish: Cheetham County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 184 Corporation St Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Joiner Registration district: Prestwich Sub registration district: Cheetham ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Emma Clough 23 Alice A. Tear 12 Elizabeth Tear 39 Frank Tear 17 James S. Tear Jane Tear 19 John Tear 16 Joseph Tear 7 Mary E. Tear 9 William Tear 21 View Original Record View original image Cant find 1871 1861 Name: William Teer Age: 1 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860 Relation: Son Father's name: Thomas Mother's name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Ancoats ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 143 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Teer 25 Elizabeth Ellen Teer 3 Jane Teer 4 Mo Thomas Teer 25 William Teer 1 1851 Name: Thomas Tuer Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806 Relation: Head Spouses's Name: Isabella Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Deansgate ED, institution, or vessel: 1c Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 66 Household Members: Name Age Isabella Tuer 38 Thomas Tuer 45 Thomas Tuer 15 William Tuer 4 View Original Record View original image 1841 ( I think this one is right, but parents are not there ) Name: Thomas Teer Age: 5 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836 Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Lancashire, England Civil parish: Manchester Hundred: Salford County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Source information: HO107/576/8 Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Ancoats ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Folio: 10 Page: 14 (click to see others on page) Line number: 22 GSU Number: 438728 But then I found another William b. Hulme, age 10 1871 cenus Father John occ. Joiner. Mother Isabella. Spelling was Teare. Bothe John and Isabella born Isle of man. This one makes sense cause my FIL said the family used to be Teare but name was changed when they left IOM ' sometime middle 1800's'. FIL said his grandfather Was a joiner/ carpenter...so following this makes sense too. So now you can see why I need the marriage...to prove who the father was and which of these williams I should be tracking! LOL! Judith LOL 2 families on the go at the same time, now that would spice things up! This is so hard when you live in Australia! Jackie