Genealogy Chat

Need some help....My grandmother and all her siblings had the middle name Bower as written on their birth certificates, we think probebly because their parents weren't married so they effectivley tooks their mothers' name as a middle name and their fathers name as their surname. So I have a whole family of Bower Spacies'. However the only family that fit in the 1901 census are transcribed as Moore Spacie, Mother is Mary E Moore (housekeeper - yeah right!) Dad is William F Spacie and two daughters are Eva and Lilian Spacie-Moore, There is also a son George Moore. All that is correct, well first name wise, so what is the correct surname? Bower or Moore? Helen.

Is a father named on the birth cert? The children might all be illegitimate, but generally illegitimate children usually have their father's surname as a middle name. Ilegitimate children generally take their mother's maiden name. Lots of children have mother's maiden name as their middle name, including my mother. Have you looked for a marriage? More info about surnames and birth registrations here: http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/births.htm

Hi I don't have any of the birth certs yet but on two of the daughters marriage certs father is down as William Spacie, I have searched till I went blue in the face for a marriage between Willam and Mary, however I can only find a marriage between William and Elizabeth who he is with on the 1881 and 1891 census, ages and occupations fit so it's the same William (believe me there are few enough Spacies anyway!) Helen

If you can't find a marriage, getting a birth cert should help establish if mother was or wasn't married. Where does the Bower bit fit in? Do you think Mr Spacie came along after Mr Bower (if he exists)!

I take it this lot are yours from the births index: Ada Bower Spacie 1908 Jul-Aug-Sep Chesterfield Joseph Bower Spacie 1906 Jan-Feb-Mar Ecclesall Bierlow Lillian Bower Spacie 1899 Jan-Feb-Mar Ecclesall Bierlow William Bower Spacie 1904 Jan-Feb-Mar Ecclesall Bierlow

Oh dear! Name: William Bower Spacie Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904 1905 Jul-Aug-Sep Age at death: 1 Ecclesall Bierlow Volume: 9c Page: 221

Another one: Ernest Bower Spacie birth date 26 May 1911 Date of death registration Jun 1991 80 Doncaster It appears that the surname they used was Spacie.

The 1901 census shows William Spacie as married, Mary Moore as married - but she is described as servant in the relationship column, not wife. Why do you think she is the children's mother? Have you looked for a death for Elizabeth?

Looks like William and Mary are both married in 1901, but not to each other, and their spouses are alive. George Moore is presumably Mary's son by her husband, so is Moore her married name and Bower her maiden name?

Helen, Yep that little lot are all mine as are 3 or 4 more! Have searched for a death for Elizabeth and found nothing though for Elizabeth to have been the mother of all the little Bower Spacies I know I can claim she'd have needed the help of an Italian Gyneacologist!! I have one birth cert for Ada Bower Spacie mother is Mary Spacie formely Bower and father is William Spacie, Ada is a middle one born 1908. Helen.

can't find any marriages for either Mary Bower or Mary Moore Helen Need to go now will be back later!

Possible Bower-Moore marriage: Marriages Oct-Dec 1894 Sheffield 9c 935 Bower Mary Ellen Bower William Moore George Richardson Annie (And another Bower. Double wedding?)

Robin, thanks, that bower/moore marriage would fit, well at least it would give George moore a married set of parents! Is there a death for George Moore Sr or did Mary Ellen run of with the next door neighbour? (not joking - William Spacie and his wife Elizabeth were living in Sheffield in 1891!) Helen.

Can't see anything obvious, but there's a lot of George Moores. If Mary was a widow in 1901 you'd think the census would say so.