Genealogy Chat

I've come unstuck with tracing my family tree. I've only been at it a couple of weeks so really don't know where to look. My grandad and my grt grandad both born in ireland with the same name where do i go looking to find out more info?

Irish records do present a bit of a problem as census records are missing for most of the Victorian period. If you post what information you have on here there will be people who can help.

Brenda: The British Government destroyed much of the census returns from the nineteenth century, presumably for political reasons. The remaining records were then largely lost when the Public Records Office in Dublin was set on fire during the fight for independence in the 1920s. Only returns for certain areas survive, as well as most of the census for 1901 and 1911. I believe that these last two are intended to be put on line by the GRO [Ireland] in the next year or so. I think parts of the 1901 census for what is now Northern Ireland are already online courtesy of family history societies there.

Kerry: If you could post more details, then people should be able to give you some helpful suggestions. You don't have to post names if you don't want to, but places, dates, and any other information could all help.

Hi Kerry I've just nudged a useful thread about Irish research tips that you might find helpful Lyla

Kerry Correction to what Andrew has written previously. Sadly Irish Census for the very early years were destroyed by successive Irish Governments but the 1901 and 1911 Census are available and may be pulled in from local LDS centres but at present they are address only searchable so you need to know exact address to be able to access them. In 3 years time these Census will be accessible on line digitised which will be good news for everybody. Dublin Census will be ready December 2006. Many myths surround the destruction of Irish Records in 1922 and contrary to the myths, the main records destroyed at this time were mainly Protestant Records and Wills. A Census was taken in Ireland every 10 years from 1821 but only the census for 1901 and 1911 are available for the public to view. The 1911 Census is not available to view in Northern Ireland as it comes under UK rules of 100 years before access.The returns are arranged by Townland or in urban areas by Street. No returns survive for 1861 1871 1881 and 1891 but there are some returns for 1821 1831 1841 and 1851 covering parts of counties Antrim, Cavan, Cork, Fermanagh, Galway, Kings County(Offaly) Derry (Londonderry) Meath and Waterford. There are lists of household names in the Census returns of 1851 for part of Belfast City and Dublin City (can consult the 1851 Dublin City Census) a CD compiled and edited by Sean Magee. There are also census search forms for each county giving the results of searches made in the returns of 1841 and 1851 for pension purposes and some other copies made from the returns of 1821 to 1851. These are located at the Dublin National Archives. You can search these records when you are in Dublin but be aware of the following if you do not find the information you require. 1 Not everybody who applied for a pension would be completing one of these green forms. These forms were only for those who could not prove their age. Baptismal dates were perfectly acceptable when applying for pension in Ireland and so only those who could not provide proof of where/when they were baptised were required to complete one. As most people in the South of Ireland were Catholics and baptised this would not have been difficult to prove. Equally most people in the North of the country would also have been baptised. Both my husband and myself have checked these records and found nothing, so presumably all our ancestores of pensionable age had no difficulty proving their ages. 2 These forms would only have been completed up until 1922 when most of the census returns from 1821 to 1851 were lost, when the Public Record Office in Dublin was destroyed in the Four Courts Fire n Dublin during the Civil War of 1922, while most of those Census Returns between 1861 and 1891 were pulped by the government in the early part of the First World War for the War effort. (!914/1918) This is the reason that only fragments remain here and there for those Census Returns that were fortunate not to have been at the PRO at the time. As said previously the 1901 and 1911 Census are being digitised and will be online in 3 years time although Dublin is suppposed to be finished December 2006. As well as the thread on Irish Research Tips see also the thread on 'First Steps in Researching Irish Family History Including Census returns' for further help on tracing your Irish ancestors which includes Census Substitutes. Janet

Well done Janet, Correct info is what we need, Thanks :))

Eleanor When you say that Irish catholics were not as well educated as Protestants were you meaning in Ireland or in UK or where? Certainly in Ireland Irish catholics were better catered for than in England as the Christian Brothers Schools started By Edmund Rice in the early 1800's spread rapidly through Ireland and my own family were very well educated to the point where an apprentice Baker of 19 is writing to a National Newspaper in the vein worthy of James Joyce and very well well educated from 1840 onwards. The girls were educated by the Presentation Nuns from the 1830's also. Where they were not able to attend then they attended Hedge Schools which were also all over Ireland. I am wondering where you have got your information from? The different spellings, which also occur everywhere else, is down to the person's accent and the person writing it down incorrectly . Janet

Eleanor This is a Tips Board and I understand that people want tips that are correct. You have not upset me, but I am concerned that there is a lot of incorrect material that is being put on to this Board and I simply seek the truth, which is what most of us aspire to in Family History or Genealogy and it has absolutely nothing to do with being a 'Know-it- All' We all make the occasional mistake but I do wince when I hear erroneous points being made about the Irish. You can google search Christian Brothers, Presentation Nuns, Hedge Schools to obtain the correct facts. Janet

Eleanor, what you said about catholics being under educated is very true, and i can't believe i did not think of this before in my research. I was educated in Ireland untill i was almost 13, and was taught about the penal laws etc. The Catholics were classed as popish and were not entitled to education. If anyone wants to look this up. Enter Penal laws into msn encarta and it will give you loads of info. Regards Julie

Thanks. All I know is that my grandad was born in 1931 in Cork My grt grandfather was born in Londenderry not sure really as to when he was born. Here's my problem they were both called samuel Anderson! My grt grandad married a Agnes Charlotte McGarvey from donegal If anyone can help it would be much appreciated

a