Genealogy Chat

Thanks Deb,...think I'd better rent a cottage over there for a week, the amount of looking up I have to do. I've just taken Paul's advice and googled...not that I haven't done it before..lol...but this time I struck lucky...thanks Paul. I hit on the Paul & Amanda Barfoot site...again, and found parents of Mary Lunsen (who was my William Ellwood's mother)...and her grandfather.....going back to the middle of the 1600's.........I'm getting there at last......so pleased, I've poured myself a drink... Thanks to you all once again. Jean

Hi Jean, The select vestry minutes were the books that contained information on the poor of the parish....My ancestor was an 'out of work' labourer and went to the parish for poor relief.....I suppose it's a bit like the 'dole'. The records gave me details of his family situation at that time, his age and abode and how much relief he was to get...So not much I didn't already know - well except the fact that he was VERY poor!! I noticed some entries that gave a wealth of info - just pot-luck I suppose! If you do go to the archives be prepared to spend a lot of time there and you will also need a follow-up visit (or two!) Deb

Thanks OC, I can now feel my strength rising...lol.....renewed vigour...and all that. Hail or shine, I will get my body over to Kendal. I sometimes think you just need somebody to moan to...to give you that extra spurt when you feel like packing it in. ('cos hubby's no help) Thanks everyone

I can only agree - Parish Regs are the way to go. If you dont live near the Parish then you can order the filmed registers from your nearest LDS centre and view them there. I have several times finished up doing a village tree in order to sort out three different James or Johns or whoever. It takes ages, but it is SOOOOO satisfying when some tiny little detail in the PR makes everything clear. I follow this up with Removal and Settlement Orders and Bastardy Orders too, generally, in my family! Monumental Inscriptions can give a wealth of details AND clues. The most surprisingly humble people left Wills, in my experience, certainly all the farmers and crofters and quite a few ag labs, who had an acre or so of land to pass on. I have one line back to 1498, courtesy of Parish Registers. I have another line stuck fast in 1824, despite doing a village tree. Short of a miracle, I will not be able to get any further back on this one. OC

I had a funny feeling that all the names aren't on IGI, Deb. I'll have to get myself over to Kendal and check for myself. Nobody said it was going to be easy!! What's the 'select vestry notes', is it something that the vicar writes, sort of in the margins? It sounds very special.......your rellies weren't royalty were they...?

Hi Jean, I think (as has already been said) that the parish records are your best bet. I was having the same problem - I used the IGI to tie up the name I was researching BUT, there didn't seem to be enough men born between 1770 - 1800?? Now I had checked the records on film for other years before and they had been spot on so I thought the IGI for the parish I was researching was complete...Well the other day I went to the local archives to check the poor relief records and while I was there I decided to just double check the baptisms for 1770 - 1800 and to my surprise I found lots of males that were not on the IGI. I found about 15 males for the name I was researching which has helped a great deal - I also found reference to my ancestor in the select vestry minutes which was a double bonus!!!!! I still don't know why only female baps were transcribed though!! Keep at it...you'll get there!!! Deb

Bel..that must be great when someone in the family kept records...I do have a family bible but all the names in it are aunts, uncles and grandparents, that I already knew. Angela, you make it sound so easy, do you live near the records office that you needed? The records office near me is brilliant but I have no ancestors in it!! Thanks both for your input....I think I just needed to let off steam...now I'll get back to it!!. By the way...they are brilliant on this board...and so informed

Paul You wrote earlier <Parson and White's Directory of 1829 names the Principal Inhabitants of Westmoreland>. I've got one Ellwood in my tree (Ann c. 1834 - 1872). She was born in Kendal, married William Lishman in 1858, had 7 children and died at Witherslack in childbirth with the final pair of twins. I've got a large number of 18th/19th century Lishmans in Westmorland. Does P & W have any? My Lishmans seem to be mostly farmers. J

I took that advice from a lot of lovely people on this board trotted off to the archives and trawled through the Fiches for baptismsfor my Binch family just to make sure 100% that I had got it right and yipee there they were right back to 1674 :))))))) (must admit did only look for 4 lol 1674 1699 1724 & 1764) and am now the proud owner of the photo copies of the fiches.) and ya know what I felt so happy to actually find them baptisms and proud too.

Thanks Kate & Merry, for your encouraging words. Kate, it would be brilliant if they always put 'the younger' at least you would have some idea....but as far as wills go...somehow I doubt it., though I have looked for my lost fortune! Merry, I'm glad I'm glad I'm not the only one.....I think I'm maybe taking it too serious ....I foolishly thought I was going to knock this tree together and finish it before I 'popped my clogs' but it's turning out to be a hobby for life.....lol....and at the expense of everything else.

Gramps (Ibet I'm older than you ...lol) I have more bits of paper with whole families..taken from IGI.....trying to fit them together, than soft mick (pardon the expression).... I think I've got it .....then three children are born too close together, or something similar...so I go to bed.....then start again the next day.........do wonder I'm going mad.....I made a pledge (yesterday) that I would give it a rest..and stay off this board for a while.....and off the internet.!!!!!!

Don't worry too much Jean.....not everyone has medieval trees!! The majority of my lines go back to about 1800..... one or two a little further, to say 1750's - I only have one event happening before 1700 (a marriage of my 8xg-grandparents in 1694) A lot depends on luck....the names of your ancestors....and where in the country they came from, also to some extent, their social status and how naughty they were! My only line that goes into the 1600's is stumped because there are no church records for the period immediately before, thanks to Mr Cromwell, I suppose. Though I have found the odd record from other sources that probably belong to my relations I don't see how I could know EXACTLY who they refer to! I have only added one direct line ancestor in the last five or six years of searching, but I enjoy fleshing out my Victorian ancestors just as much as finding a name for my 9xg-grandparent (or whatever). Just go with the flow! Good Luck!! Merry

Jean, one thing that helps is, as Grandpa Jim said, look through the baptisms, marriages and burials, because you may well find that some of your possibles from the baptisms died in infancy and you can rule them out. Also, if you look through the baptism entries themselves and the marriage entries themselves you may find there is extra information that will help (though of course there may not be!) For instance, I managed to sort out a similar problem in my family tree because the actual parish records referred to 'William Hett the younger' in the marriage entry for my ancestors, so then I knew that my William was the son of another William. This is not always mentioned in transcriptions such as the IGI. Also, if you can find any wills relating to the families they might help. Kate.

Yes Paul....I do think Ann Rigg is correct...but that's as far as back as I can go ...and prove it.

It does feel good Jim....but I now feel it's more like guesswork...the names,dates and Parishes fit...but I'm a devil for proof...and that...I'm not going to get. Thanks Paul..will do that..great I have been on all the Westmorland sites, but in the end they just seem to names..and so many families years ago, had the same first names I look at some of my trees back to the early 1700's and think...are these the right people....

Don't miss the small details either. You see that address for the family in the above detail.... Riggs Hole? Surely that's Ann's place of origin. I've googled and a Riggs Hall has come up in the same place. I thought you said you needed to find a murderer or a genius?

Thanks Nell...Farmers after 1841...before that...haven't a clue Paul, I have thought Elizabeth Mattison..but when I looked for her birth...Mattisons don't seem to come from westmorland, more from the Cumberland and Northumberland are..which I suppose is near..but which one....throw the dice. I didn't realise it was a 'submitted entry' on IGI...I'll look into that Jim, how on earth did you get back that far....can we read about your relatives in books!!

Parson and White's Directory of 1829 names the Principal Inhabitants of Westmoreland. It includes many of the Ellwood and Rigg families with their places of residence. That would be a good starting point. PM me your e-mail address and I will send you a pdf of the list.

If you have identified the Parish, then try this. Extract ALL the names which relate to your Surname. Baptisms, Marriages and Burials. Then try to fit the families together and often it will throw up relationships which were not immediately apparent. It really is a good feeling to build a Tree and then find that you can fit it to yours and have maybe 5 or 6 generations added in one go.

William Ellwood Sex: M Birth: abt 1795 Place: Crosby Ravensworth, Shap, Westmorland, England Christening: 15 Mar 1795 Place: Crosby Ravensworth, Shap, Westmorland, England Parents: Father: William Elwood Mother: Elizabeth Mattinson Marriage(s): Spouse: Ann Rigg Marriage: 13 Nov 1820 Place: Crosby Ravensworth, Shap, Westmorland, England Residence:1851 Place: Rigg Hole, Shap, Westmorland, England Occupation:1851 Place: Farmer (10 acres) This information was supplied by: Grant Forsyth EDWARDS 20 Hartland Road Epping, Essex CM16 4PE Why don't you write to him and ask if he has more?