Genealogy Chat

in 1971, my father in law sold several acres of the land behind his house to a property developer. I am now trying to locate the contract between my father in law and the property developers. The firm went bankrupt a couple of years after the houses were completed ( I do know their name) but I don't know the names of the solicitors involved. Are these records kept by a central office? I found nothing on the Land registy because all these houses have their own deeds. Any ideas where to look please, or am I flogging a dead horse?

If you know the name of the company concerned, you could try companies house. If a receiver was appointed, they may have some information on it. Alternatively, the local paper to the area at the time they went bust would probably have had a notice placed with the name of the contact solicitor. Jeanne

thank you so much Jeanne! Never thought of that! That's why this board is so great! We now live in my father in law's house and my daughter works for the newspaper group for this area, so I'll get onto it now.

Hope you find what you're after. Jeanne

There are two copies of a contract - one would be held by the developers solicitors, the other by your father in law's solicitors. Do you know who they were? Having said that, you are talking about 35 years ago and most firms of solicitors destroy their files after about 10 years. They are only required to actually keep them for 6 years and storage space is now so expensive. Is it some particular point you are trying to find out? The contract is preparatory to the actual conveyance (or transfer deed as it is now called). Any reservations specified (eg rights of way or drainage etc over other land) would be specified in the contract and in the Transfer Deed as well, and would usually be carried on to subsequent purchasers, so the deeds to any of the individual houses which were build should show these details in their deeds and you can get a copy of that from the Land Registry. Tina

Tina. I know the firm of solicitors my father in law used, retired long ago and their firm closed. When the land wa sold, FIL made sure he kept an acre for a large garden in keeping with the house. We have since found out the Council have classed part of the garden as an open space, ie greenbelt.We are sure it was down as our garden but can't find any reference to in on the deeds The deeds just have a boundary line round the whole lot. I was hoping the original contract might mention the land as being the garden. I really need to get hold of a copy of the contract.

When Solicitors close down, they are obliged by law to transfer their client's papers to another Solicitor and this has to be registered by the Law Society. I know this cos I too am trying to track down documents - my Solicitor was struck off (LOL) and I have finally found out who has them. It is normally another Solicitor in the same town - it was for me. OC

I think the council can designate land green belt when it is a garden, after all, all greenbelt land is 'something'. The designation means it can't be built on. Or are you afraid that by 'open space' the council means 'public open space', in which case if you can prove you own it, you should be able to stop that. Mavis

Teresa I think Mavis is correct in that just designating the garden as 'open space' simply means that they will not give permission for it to be built on - it does not take it out of your possession. However, if they have said 'public open space' then they are claiming that the garden does not belong to you. However, since this land has been part of the garden of the house for such a long time, even if you cannot prove ownership by deeds, you can claim possessory title, always assuming that no-one else but the owner of the house has had the use of that land. It helps if the land is fenced off from surrounding land. If I were you I would start by approaching the council and establish exactly what they mean. Is the title to your f-i-l's house registered? If so, there will be a plan registered which will show the boundaries. If it is not registered, then you need the title deeds, which should also have a plan attached. If the property is mortgaged, then the Title Deeds may well be with the Building Society or Bank. If not, then chances are that his solicitors had them. When they closed down, they will have transferred all their files and any Deeds they held to another firm. Ring the Law Society, they should be able to tell you who took over the practice. Sorry, just noticed that you have looked at the Deeds so you obviously have them. Is there no plan? Or is the area of land included not mentioned? If the title to your property is not registered, then when the land was sold off your title deeds should have a memorandum of sale endorsed on them, which should tell you how much land was sold. Or are the council claiming that the land they are designating as open space was sold to the developer and then passed by him to the council? If so, ask the council to prove their ownership. When the developer built the houses, he must have got planning permission. Ask the council to show you a copy of the developers plan submitted in respect of that permission. That should hopefully show the boundaries of the land which he owned. However, if this land has been used exclusively as garden to the house you now live in since 1971, you can claim possessory title even if you do not have deeds to demonstrate your ownership. You can register possessory title with the Land Registry. It might be worth your while to do that if you are worried that the council is trying to grab your garden. Tina

lots of great advice here, so I'll try and explain the situation. My OH inherited the house when his father died. As I said, the house sits on an acre of land with the majority of the land at the side of the house. Inland Revenue taxed this land as building land, so we applied to build houses on it. The council are stating it is greenbelt ( they are not disputing ownership) and have refused permission. Inland revenue have refused to refund the extra tax they took as the council have told them it has building potential.I thought if we could find the original contract we could prove this is in fact our garden, rather than just a piece of greenbelt which would make easier to sell it for building and allow my husband to recoup the extra tens of thousands they taxed the estate.

Goodness, Teresa , what a nightmare. The Inland Revenue hate giving anything back! Greenbelt land is specifically designated as such. Could you ask the council to provide documentation demonstrating when it was designated as greenbelt. Then you could provide that to the IR as evidence that the land cannot be built on and therefore should never have been valued as building land, whatever the council said. However, if the transfer of the land into your husband's possession pre-dates the designation as greenbelt, then you may be well not be able to use that argument since the land will have been taxed at it's value at the date of your f-i-l's death. Good luck. Tina

As Tina says. What a nightmare. Good Luck Mavis

thanks everyone for your help. I think I will concentrate on finding the original contract. Again, thank you, I now know how to go about it.