Genealogy Chat

My grandfather was a lovely man, a role model in so many respects. However, in later years I began to recognise a streak of anti-semitism. I know he came from a very different world, where comments and jokes at the expense of racial minorities were socially acceptable, but to me it rather soils the memory of somebody I idolised. Now I know something that he apparently didn't know. Two of his mother's aunts, I find, married jews. If my grandfather had access to the kind of information we are now unearthing, would he have been forced to confront his prejudices? As we discover more about our personal ancestry, can we avoid the emerging truth that we are all intertwined as one huge family? Could Genes Reunited change the world?

Paul My father was a bigot and a racist. Even as a child, I recognised this and I challenged his prejudices many times over the years. He could never give any reasons for his racism (well, not convincing ones anyway, it was just sheer prejudice, repeated parrot fashion from GK what original source). As I have said recently on here, I am pretty sure that my family either has Jewish origins, or Jewish race input and I said this many times to my father. He would go puce with rage. My father was intelligent and well educated. I do not know why he was like this. OC

Oh Paul, don't let it spoil his memory. We are so much a product of our upbringing and times (someone has to teach you these things). In days of yore a lot of learning was by rote and most people were not taught to question things for themselves. If he knew, liked and respected the Jewish men in question BEFORE he knew their religion, I expect it would have caused him to question his irrational prejudices. Victoria

Paul Quite possibly - and indeed likely, your grandfather was able to hold general views (derogatory) about Jews whilst accepting the ones in his family. I know of a black man who was told by a white friend that at the next election he was going to vote 'National Front - no offence, mate'. Well, obviously the black man was offended. But I think most people are capable of making sweeping statements about races or nations, whether positive or negative, such as 'Asians are hard workers' or 'The French are bloody disorganised' whilst being able to judge individual members of groups differently. Its easy to lump together everyone from a specific community and hold a general view of them. Its also true that in pre-political correctness days, people were more outspoken and more tolerant of bigotry. nell

My father in law has always had a prejudicy about Irish and Catholics. No idea why, except that his mother in law would have nothing to do with him because he wasn't a Catholic. He was always spouting off to his wife, who was brought up as Catholic, about her bl**y irish ancestors. Since doing the family tree, I can find no trace of Irish in her family, but guess what: He is decended from a very poor Irish Catholic family living in the slums of York. He wasn't best pleased when I told him. Mind you I did rub it in a bit. pmsl Margaret

What I do remember very well is in my grandparents day, the wife ALWAYS, did what the husband said. If he voted Labour, she voted Labour, if he said black was white, black was white. So don`t be too hard on him, it could be it was the way he was moulded.

Paul...it was a completely different world then. My father was the same with black people. The names he would call them makes my blood run cold today but then it was acceptable and even worse tolerated. I am talking about the 1950s when we had an influx of West Indians. My father was a bigoted, ignorant man in a lowly paid job but for some reason he thought he was far better than the West Indians. Strange isn't it? Thank goodness this did not rub off on my sister, brother or me. So not all behaviour is learnt from our parents. Jean x.

Jean My father was an intelligent, well educated man. His parents were middle class but rather bohemian and certainly DIDNT teach him these prejudices, either by word or by example. So what possible excuse did my father have? In his case I think it was fear - he feared everything 'unknown' and 'different' and led a very OCD-ish sort of life. His prejudices were pretty liberal mind you, and extended not just to Jews, but blacks, chinese, japanese, the French, the Germans and so on and so on. He even hated our next door neighbours because they were from Yorkshire LOL. When I was about 14, an Asian family moved in next door - this was extremely unusual in those days, and unheard of where we lived. My mum, anxious to show how UNprejudiced she was, stood at the garden fence and shouted to the woman hanging out her washing DOOOOOO YOOOOOO LIIIIKE ENGGG LAAAND? IIIIT ISSS VEEERRRY COOOLD FOOOR YOOOO? The woman replied, rather coolly, No, I dont find it too cold, we moved here from Scotland. (She and her husband were both Doctors). OC In fact, all this prejudice has served to make me very UNprejudiced, for which I am very grateful.

I don't think anyone should be condemned for any beliefs they held 'Back Then' (I'm not saying anyone here has done that so please don't take it the wrong way). The world is a totally different place today and we wouldn't behave today as people would decades ago. It's not just about prejudice against people for the colour of their skin or their religious beliefs. It's about how people behaved generally. Think along the lines of the roles of women, so called cowards of war, children working at tender ages and so on and so on. We believe we act in a civilised way now - I bet in 50 or a 100 years from now people wont be able to believe how we act today. It's the way the human race evolves. PS I'm not saying they were right in their behaviour either - just that that's the way it was.

I do feel that part of this journey of discovery is the unravelling of family trees far more diverse than any of us could imagine. How can people sustain their bigotry if the evidence of their own diverse heritage is laid before them? This, I feel, will be one of the great benefits to society of this explosion of interest in genealogy.

O C.....pmsl at your Mother. I often wonder whether my father was so emotionally insecure and felt so inferior, and knowing nothing about blacks except those portrayed in the cinema at that time, he honestly believed himself to be more intelligent and superior. He died 23 years ago. He would never have survived in the multi cutural society of today. Jean x.

Snowdrop I do agree with you to a certain extent, but just wonder how I knew, even as a child, that this was nasty and wrong? OC

Now we come back to the old nurture or nature OC.

I grew up in London's East End in a very different time......as a kid I can remember 2 fella's that my dad used to have a beer with after work. Darkie and Dummy ! one was a black docker, and the other was a deaf and dumb bookies runner..........Dummy sometimes babysat me and my brother. My dad thought the world of these blokes, and mum used to cook them a breakfast or dinner now and then - we were definately not racist - but would certainly be seen as such today. I went to school in Stepney with kids from all over - we integrated with each other and as a result had respect for each other - it just isn't like that today.

My uncle was always very biased against Roman Catholics - the only thing I ever heard him speak strongly about. He called all Catholics by the abusive name 'Mickeys'. Yet his mother was Irish and a Roman Catholic. His bride was also brought up a Catholic, but had to choose between him or her church. I have always assumed events in his childhood coloured his judgement, but none of his youger siblings ever showed the same prejudice - different position in the family and perhaps not the cause of contention? Jay