Genealogy Chat

Thanks Kate. I know - it's really really frustrating - there must be an answer to this somewhere but I fear I am going to be one of those poor souls on here in another three years still asking for tips on where to go next! Oh well, I have 112 definite relatives on my tree so far, half of which my brother did not know about before, so it will make a good wedding present for him anyway. And hopefully one day I can take it down out of its frame and add in Isaac's parents for him!

Shareen, Turton has an Online Parish Clerk on that site I mentioned before, but the baptisms (and burials) are only online up to 1812 so far. Presumably they will add ones after 1812 at some point. The Lancashire Parish Register Society has Turton St. Anne baptisms and burials up to 1812 on its publications list (book and microfiche), so it looks as though nobody has transcribed post-1812 yet. So, not much help, really! Still, it was worth trying. Kate.

Thanks Tabs, that's very useful for future reference!

hi i live near these areas holcome is part of bury close to rochdale, facit is indeed part of whitworth that boarders with rochdale and rossendale, turton near bolton all the areas are quite close by, (10 mile radias), if you look on a map and find bury (near mancheater) you should find the places, although places like holcome, turton and facit are only villages

Merry, that's a really good point actually. It would make more sense if his grandparents had a farm which they were too old to keep up and he had gone there to help them out, however like you say old William Law is a cotton weaver or something similar, so doesn't add up. Rochdale is a completely separate town to Bolton (Bolton Bury and Rochdale are all towns north of Manchester running left to right in that order). Turton is (or at least was) a small area/village north of Bolton. If you look on Multimap you can see Turton Bottoms north of Bolton. This is where St Anne's is. The info about the parish registers is on genuki(.)org(.)uk/big/eng/LAN/Turton/StAnne(.)shtml

Yes, no records are ever complete (!!), though I was fairly hopefull as the BIVRI has a lot for Lancs on it :o(( Merry

Is St Ann's church in Rochdale? As Turton is a parish in it's own right, I would probably want to check the PR's there, as the bap hasn't yet surfaced at St Ann's. I do keep wondering why the son of a prosperous miller (well, he looks prosperous!) is an ag lab - not impossible at all, but a little unusual. ......Sorry, just musing! I wonder if the fulling miller left a will? Merry

Thanks Merry, that's so frustrating. Is BIVRI one of those resources which isn't complete?

I have checked the British Isles Vital Records Index (BIVRI) for baps for these people, but no luck :o(( Merry

Merry, that's what I thought too. It's so tantalisingly close but am missing that vital link back to Isacc!

Here is the fulling miller in 1841. Alfred Law abt 1825 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Ellin Law abt 1831 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire John Law abt 1831 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Mary Law abt 1833 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Sarah Law abt 1801 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire William Law abt 1801 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire William Law abt 1835 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire Alice Tomlinson abt 1821 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire I wonder if William Law, fulling miller is the son of William Law, head of house in 1841 and living with Isaac?? Therefore he is with his paternal grandparents? Merry

Yes Merry that's him - William the Fulling Miller. Holcombe is, I believe, near to (or in) Bolton where Isaac was born. I'm a bit hazy with these places too. I think Garton is mistranscribed too - supposed to be Turton. It's Turton in all the other cenuses. And yes, that's Isaac you've found with his wife and children.

This chap may be the one you were looking at.....1851: Household Members: Name Age Alfred Law 25 John Law 19 Mary Law 17 Sarah Law 50 William Law 51 William Law 15 Giles Stansfield 25 William, 51, born Holcombe Lancs.....fulling miller emp 50 men. This would make him an important member of the community. Quite a large business! The children are born in different places......looks like Belfield for the eldest child and Littleton for the others. I don't know Lancs at all, so I don't know where these places are, or if they are near to where Isaac says he was born? Merry

I think it says Turton, Lancs. Merry

So this is Isaac in 1851 with his wife and first children (for ref)...... Household Members: Name Age Isaac Law 26 John Law 5 Sarah Law 25 Sarah Ann Law 3 William Law 1 Living at Civil parish: Spotland Ecclesiastical parish: Whitworth County/Island: Lancashire Country: England and Isaac says he was born at Garton, Lancs. The image doesn't look like Garton, though......can someone else look at it, please? Merry

Shareen, if I were you I would definitely check out that baptism you were given details of. I can't imagine what s/he meant by 'no sign of parents', though - does that mean Isaac's baptism is listed without names of parents? That would be very unusual indeed, and I would expect there to be some kind of explanation given in the parish register! (Unless the info was taken from some kind of parish register extract / bishop's transcripts?) Kate.

ps I believe his birthdate to be 1824 - when I search on Ancestry for Isaac Law in 1824 he's the first one on the list. (I don't have a subscription any more - I did the free two weeks thing and it took me all that time to get all the census entries I needed - so i ran out of time to solve the parentage mystery).

Kate, Merry, Jess, thanks so much for your replies. So sorry for the delay in responding - I didn't expect responses so quickly! (Am at work but will check back regularly all day now in case you come back again). To answer your questions: Jess - in 1851 he is at Longacres farm in Facit (I think this is now known as Whitworth) in Spotland (which is in Rochdale - I don't think it's referred to as Spotland any more). He is living with wife Sarah and children John (b1846), Sarah (b1847) and William (b1850). In 1861 he's still there, now also with Martha (b1853) Mary (b1856) and Emma (b.1860). In 1871 he's still there, now also with Jane (b1866) and Hannah (b1869), although from memory the two eldest have moved away by then. He's also still there in 1881. (In 1991 after Isaac's death, William Law is living there having taken over the farm, with his own wife Emma and their children). Kate - I was given a specific date at St Anne's church Turton (near Bolton, Lancs) and am inclined to believe it's correct although I agree I do need to test this if possible. The relative's notes said 'no sign of parents' therefore not sure this record would help anyway. If you look at all the census returns his birthplace is given as Turton, so it is backed up at least in one respect. It's a good point about checking William Law the Fulling Miller's children's baptisms - I hadn't even thought of that. Annoyingly I have left my file at home but I will come in tomorrow fully armed to do some searching. The William I think might be his dad is on the 1841 and 1851 censuses in a village called Hallfold, also in Spotland I believe, with his wife Sarah and children. Isaac's wedding certificate gives one of the witnesses as Thomas Clegg. There are Cleggs in the area on all the censuses I printed out for Isaac, including a Thomas Clegg, but have not been able to gain anything more from this. Kate - yes, that's him (the entry you printed above). Although the birthdate doesn't quite match up, but then I have found, as I'm sure others have, that they often don't! Thank you thank you thank you again for your interest and all of your suggestions. Any help you are able to give is very much appreciated. Sx

Oh, I typed a great long message in but I lost it because I got cut off without noticing! Anyway, try this site: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ (Lancashire Online Parish Clerks) It has St. Chad's in Rochdale with baptisms up to 1825, presumably they are going to add later years soon. No Isaac Law on there but plenty of other Laws, some whose fathers are Fullers (oh, and loads of Lords). Might be interesting for you to look at, anyway, even though it isn't St. Ann's. Kate.

Presumably this is the Isaac you mention you found in 1841: View Record Name Estimated Birth Year BirthPlace Civil Parish County/Island View Image View Record Ann Law abt 1771 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire View Record Isaac Law abt 1826 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire View Record William Law abt 1766 Lancashire, England Rochdale Lancashire I haven't looked at the image yet, but don't forget that William and Ann might be brother and sister rather than husband and wife, and it is just possible that this William is Isaac's father, though not very likely, I grant you. (This William is a cotton weaver.) Back soon, no doubt... Kate.