Genealogy Chat

Yes, I too got an awful shock when I found my first marriage that DIDN'T give the fathers! I imagined all sorts. If you can get hold of the Banns Books, these give all sorts of information - my best find was eleven witnesses to a marriage, all of whom had given their relationship to the bride and groom. In the same Banns book, I found a rivetting tale (not my family) of an underage couple who wanted to marry. The Banns were called and the father of the bride objected. The Vicar appealed to the Bishop, who granted a licence for them to marry as the girl was 'great with child'. Incidentally - those of you who don't find the father's names - you ARE looking at the originals, and not the BTs? This sort of detail is rarely transferred to the BTs, in my experience (which has been chiefly Lancashire and Cheshire, I must say) OC

Luck of the draw Gwynne - I was staggered to find ones that DIDN'T !!! Came as an awful shock - but guess it depends where you start. I would always advise people to have IGI marr refs checked with PR, for marital status, abode and banns or lic. Marr entry can give clues to possible bp location, certainly for first child. Jay

Hi again, I'm staggered to learn that there are pre 1837 OPRs which give the names of the parents. I wish I had been that lucky, in all the ones I've ploughed through I've never found any that do. Gwynne

Thank you Janet and OC. yes, I have been doing this long enough not to rely on information given by other people which is how I came to start to unravel this muddle. I guess I will have to sort out all the censuses for all the warners in North Petherton now. I do have some but just my Gtx2 Grandfathers family have 11 siblings and their father? has three siblings all with large families, same names. Oh well, onwards and backwards!!! Ann Glos

I totally agree with Janet. I have found many parents given pre 1837 on PRs and certainly enough times to make me ALWAYS look - Lancashire PRs and Cheshire PRs seem to (nearly always) give this information. As for the overall problem, can I suggest that you abandon information which has been given to you by your contact, and start again, using only your proven info, i.e. from census, certs and PRs. The standard advice is to go back one generation at a time, but I often disobey this rule when confronted with 5 Joe Bloggs, all doing things in the same parish. I go back to the beginning of the PR - or at least to the first mention of the surname and come forward, extracting every event. This way you make family groups (hopefully) and I find it a very useful system for sorting out which Joe Bloggs I am interested in.You also get a 'feel' for the area which is very useful too. Not easy, not quick, but sometimes the only way to go forward is to go backward! OC

When advising people about PR entries pre 1837, I think what we should say is 'it was not standard overall practice', rather than making the blanket statement that it was NEVER done. Some parts of Yorkshire had the Dade system from c1770 to c1812 and these are extremely comprehensive - bps usually name grandparents as well parents (I've got one that also names a gt-grandfather) Marriages name parents I understand that some other counties had Barrington registers, which also gave more info than the normal requirement? Although I've never had occasion to look at these. Whilst I agree that we shouldn't advise people to travel to the RO with false hope, neither should we tell them categorically that they WON'T find any more information. It is always worth a try. Jay

Gwynne Trouble is with all the Warners living so close (all North Petherton from 1550 to 1800s) the naming pattern doesn't help becaue it is repeated across the families. (sigh!) So it doesn't look as if it is worth a visit to the RO (about hour and a half away)> thanks anyway. Ann Glos

Depends on the vicar - I have some that not only give dads name but his occupation - but they are rare. Only way to do it is pray they are OTP and have been there from year dot and work backwards looking for the baptism.

Hi Ann, Sadly parents are not given before July 1837 but sometimes their names appear as witnesses. It can be a real tangle if families keep using the same names. Sometimes wills can help sort it out. Traditional naming patterns can also be an indication. I go through listing ll the children born to the couples with 'my' name then all the marriages. Then I try to sort them out. Gwynne

In the same generation there were five John WARNERS Disgarding those who married other names given that Hannah and Ann/Anne are interchangeable. 1. John WARNER 1772 parents Richard and Martha MASTERS married Ann LIGHT 2. John WARNER 1773 parents John and Elizabeth TURNER married Hannah JENNINGS 3. John WARNER 1784 parents Jonathan and Honor WARNER married Anne HATREE I should add here that this research has been done by a cousin in Australia who has worked hard to take the line back to 1550 but I keep discovering anomalies. E.g. Anne HATREE was the daughter of John HATREE and Jane MUSGRAVE (illegitimate), info thanks to Ozibird in Australia. In the 1841 census I have John WARNER 66 shoemaker, Hannah 55, Joseph 22 mason, Christian 20 (female), James 15, Jane READING 75, George CHEEVINGS 25 From this I deduce that this is the John (3) who married Anne HATREE as Jane MUSGRAVE married John READING. But his birth date on the census is more in line with John (2) who married Hannah Jennings. I know that my Gtx2 Grandfather’s (Robert WARNER) parents were John WARNER and Hannah. (Hannah WARNER (W) 61 (1790) was living with Robert and his wife and children in the 1851 census.) This birth date is in line with the probably date of birth of Hannah JENNINGS Also in 1851 I have John WARNER 77 (1775) and H WARNER 63 (1788) This is in line with John WARNER (2) See how they are now muddled. Please any suggestions as to how to tackle the muddle, or is the problem solvable? Going out for an hour will look in when I get back. Thanks. Ann glos

It is a while since I went to th Record office and I can't remember. If I look up a marriage in parish records does it always tell me the parents of the couple? The reason I ask is to do with the Hannah WARNER conundrum of a couple of days back. See below