Genealogy Chat

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I have the marriage cert for the following: Marriage Jan 1860, Shoreditch. Groom Robert Newman, 28, bachelor, labourer. Father Robert Newman, shoemaker. Bride Sarah Sells, 22, spinster. Father John Sells, fishmonger. Witnesses Richard Newman and Esther Cleland. I’m not worried about Sarah as I have her on all censuses, but cannot find Robert prior to his marriage. I have been looking for him on 1841 & 1851 for ages! All subsequent censuses give birthplace as St Pancras, Middlesex. Please can somebody find him for me? I have found Esther Cleland on the censuses (b 1812), but have no idea who she is. Thanks in advance. Angela

Could this be him 1841? Edward Newman abt 1811 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record Edward Newman abt 1838 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record Frederick Newman abt 1841 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record Mary Newman abt 1811 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record Mary A Newman abt 1841 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record Robert Newman abt 1832 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex View Record William Newman abt 1833 Middlesex, England St John Hackney Middlesex

Or maybe Alfred Newman abt 1836 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Dorathy Newman abt 1792 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Jane Newman abt 1816 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record John Newman abt 1786 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Mary Newman abt 1822 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Rebeca Newman abt 1833 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Richard Newman abt 1831 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex View Record Robert Newman abt 1829 Middlesex, England St Pancras Middlesex

Hi Kathleen Thanks for looking. I saw those two, but discounted them because the head wasn't called Robert or a shoemaker. I'll have another look. Angela

Robert Newman 1911 St Luke Middlesex. Look up robert in ancesters 1841 4th page 14 down there is a Richard there also. Rod

Sorry Salty - probably me being thick, but I don't understand what you mean? Angela :) update - ok found that one. My concern is, he's only 5 years old & should be 9 or 10. Subsequent censuses are pretty consistent. It is a tempting one though, thanks.

Must learn how to cut and paste. lookup ancesters.co.uk robert newman 1841 census go to page 4 look down the page to robert newman abt 1811 b middlesex St Luke middlesex bring up the image and there is robert 1811, robert 1836, richard 1838. Rod

Any more experts out there? Grateful for any help, please!! Thank you. Angela

Esther Cleland as you say born 1812. 1851 census states b Edmonton, but living with undertaker husband and their children (eldest aged 14) in Shoreditch. Perhaps a professional witness?

Thanks, I hadn't thought of that Ivy - I always presume that witnesses are relatives or close friends. I did find a Richard Newman on IGI (christened at the same church as Sarah Sell's parents had married - St Lukes, Old Charlton, Kent), with father Robert & mother Esther - toying with the idea that they had had Robert as well, then Robert snr had died & Esther had married William Cleland. Perhaps I have a too fertile imagination!! Angela

... certainly anything's possible - I think I need some creativity on some of my lines! One other possibility to look into - the couple seem to have gone to Greenwich in 1861, but are back in St Pancras by 1871. The 1861 census states Somers Town. Google has a pub of this name, just by St Pancras station. Using the 'keyword' box in Ancestry for Somers Town gives a possible family there, but the wrong father's name (Richard), and it would make Robert older (say 1826 birth) than he declares later. Can't find any others to fit - all the best with your search.

Ivy: Somers Town is the area to the north and west of St. Pancras station. J

Thanks Ivy, I just can't believe he's being elusive in both 1841 & 1851! Another mystery is why were they in Shoreditch in 1860 - Sarah was born in Greenwich & their 2 eldest sons were born there in the late 1850s, as well as my husband's direct ancestor in 1861? I'll probably never know. Angela UPDATE Just had a look at that image & Richard the father is a shoemaker! Reckon this may be the one, a mistake re father's name on cert & possibly Robert taking a few years of his age later as Sarah was a few years younger. Thanks Ivy. Angela

Not only that, BUT Richard & what remains of the family are also in Greenwich in 1861 - looks very hopeful, thanks again Ivy. Angela