Genealogy Chat

I'm facing a bit of a brickwall with my greatx3 grandmother Elizabeth Ann Horn, in that I can't find her parents on the 1841 or 1851. See below:)

I have Elizabeth Ann Horn(e) married 26th May 1851 Bethnal Green, daughter of George Horn a blockmaker. Census information is consistent and give her birthplace as St Georges in the East, Middlesex c1830. She died 15th Dec 1890 in Hackney aged 61. I feel certain she is the Elizabeth Ann Horn baptised 7th Feb 1830 (birth date 6th Dec 1829) at St Botolph Without Aldgate, daughter of George & Elizabeth Sarah. She is not in Bethnal Green on the 1851 but in Hoxton New Town and a servant to a brush maker. I can’t find a George Horn who is a block maker/ mason etc and no Elizabeth Horns with a father called George in the right age bracket on the 1841. But there is an Elizabeth Horn aged 15 born Middlesex on the 1841 living with Richard and Ann Viney (?) in St Georges in the East. There is also 6 year old George Horn living in the household. In the occupation bit, Elizabeth has FS but I don’t know what that means (servant of sorts?) If this is my Elizabeth, she may well be an orphan which would explain why I can’t find her parents.

a) FS just meant 'female servant' (or as I like to think of them, 'skivvy'!) b) girls who came from less-well-to-do families often lived away from home in domestic service from the age of 13 or so, quite routinely. My own grandmother, born 1893 was in service at the age of 14. So finding someone without her family doesn't necessarily mean she was orphaned. Mind you, the George Horn also in the household is suggestive that he was a relative of Elizabeth - maybe a younger brother? c) have you checked death indexes for George Horn to see whether he might have died before 1841? Ditto his wife? Or have you looked for George and missus on later censuses? nell

Can't see 6-year-old George in 1851 census. nell

Hi Nell - aaaaaah Female Servant lol - of course:) Yep, I've been looking for George but to no avail although there is a George Hurn son of George & Elizabeth in 1836 - not a million miles from St Georges. Odd that if she is a servant, there is a 6 year old possible sibling in the house. The NBI is useless for Middlesex - do you know what other indexes are available?

If George and/or wife died after 1st July 1837 they'd be in the GRO indexes. Before that, you probably need to trawl the burial registers in likely parishes at the London Met Archives :-((( Not having relationships on 1841 census is a pain. George could be a cousin or maybe just given the same surname as Elizabeth in a mistake. I'm wondering if George senior would have been listed in a trades directory of the period, which might give a useful address to help your census or death search. nell

Am just going offline for a bit but if anyone can spare the time, could they have a look at the image for Richard Viney born c 1806 living St Georges in the East, Middlesex - is there a possibility the surname is Dyer because if it was, his wife could well be my Elizabeth's aunt.

Maybe her parents were dead. Gwynne

Sorry Nell - I have looked at the BMD but not trawled ancestry yet. I thought the Elizabeth Sarah Horn would be a help but of course the Sarah might not have been used. I need to do that. I'm not 100 % sure which district St Georges is under so will do FreeBMD again when I've checked. Thanks:) Hi Gwynne - I'm hoping so cos otherwise I just can't find them:))

David Just taken a decco at the 1841 image. Hard to read Richard's name, it could be Viney, certainly isn't Dyer. First letter impossible, then 'inly' is what it looks like to me. His occupation looks like 'marger' but could be almost anything! Of course the fact that Elizabeth is a female servant doesn't necessarily mean she was living in - she might go to another nearby house to skivvy, or work in a shop, or some such. nell

Thanks Nell:)) Well sort of - I was hoping you'd say Dyer;) I think the occupation is sawyer. Didn't realise St Georges in the East was a district in its own right. No useful Horn(e)s on there but will try neighbouring districts later. There is a George Horn who married an Elizabeth Sarah Hayes in 1829 in Stepney and an Elizabeth Sarah Hayes baptised 1799 in Stepney or Shoreditch. A probable Hayes sister married a Richard Dyer. All sounds quite likely to me but doesn't help with me identifying them on the 1841:) I hadn't thought that Elizabeth would have been a servant (skivvy lol) out of the household. Thanks:) Really must go offline for a bit:) Thanks for your help.

Possible death for George: George Horne 1838 Oct-Nov-Dec Hackney Volume: 3 Page: 114

And Elizabeth: Elizabeth Horn 1838 Jan-Feb-Mar St Luke Volume: 2 Page: 318 Elizabeth Horn 1839 Jul-Aug-Sep Bethnal Green Volume: 2 Page: 14

Thanks for looking for me Nell - I think I might have to go for the George when funds allow. Have just been looking at the Dyer connection and it was a bit of a stretch of the imagination anyway:)