Genealogy Chat

Help please, all you experienced people. Have just received marriage certificates. 1845 a widower - his father's name is left blank, can I make any assumptions from this (e.d. illegitimate?) 1858 - father's occupation given as labourer, would it have been stated as such if father was already deceased? (Which I suspected he was, when he was no longer with the family on the censuses, but hadn't yet proved) Thanks in advance Mavis

If the father's name is left blank, the most likely reason is that the person was illegitimate (although not always). Father's name and occupation is sometimes given even if the father is deceased. It depends on how the question was asked and who provided the information. Kath. x

Hi Mavis The fact that the father is or isn't quoted as deceased depends purely on what was said to the registrar. I know that my 2xg g/f married after his father died,but the cert doesn't say so.Same for my grandfather,though he says his father is 'retired' Glen

Blank in place of father's name is almost definitely a sign of illegitimacy. Other details are dependent on person providing information, though yours sounds likely. Many of my lot made up posher jobs for their fathers, so an ag lab would become a gardener or a farmer! nell

Thanks all, think I will keep the presumed dead a such and concentrate on a death certificate for him, rahter than scouring the census incase he's still alive and living elsewhere John CAMP isn't a rare enough name, (just frequently misspelt in the census). And I'll work on the other as illegitimate for a start. Illegitimacy definitely brings a branch to a very dead end. If it proves the fact it will be the second that's stopped dead. Thanks for the opinions, and experiences. Mavis

The bridegroom being illegitimate doesn't necessarily have to mean that you have drawn a blank, Mavis. If you are lucky, there may be some parish records in the County Records Office showing that his mother had asked for financial help and had named the child's father. These are called Bastardy Bonds or Bastardy Order and are the equivalent of maintenance payments today. Having said that, I drew a blank on my search for these for one of my illegitimate relatives (the Surrey Records Office simply didn't have any records for my parish for the right period) but you could strike lucky and I have seen quite a few of them online recently.

Thanks Angela, for the tip about Bastardy Bonds. lol Mavis

Mavis you havn't given us his name or place & date of birth but have you checked the IGI to see if there is an entry for him? Georgina.

well i had a marriage cert1894 that said that the father was deceased but then i found him on the 1901 census alive and kicking. maybe they had an argument lol or the father didnt agree to the marriage sylvia

He is John ROSE, 1851 census gives his birth year as 1828 and birth place Blackburn, Lancs. He's listed as a widower on his 1845 marriage, there's not too many possibles for an earlier marriage on FreeBMD, trouble is if I order them, it's not going to take me much further. The most likely candidate on the 1841 census is 14 and living with 2 @ 15yr & a 20yr, no parents! Helpful. I don't know how I feel about these sort of ancestors, they're a pain when you meet them, but a great sense of achievement if you sort them out. Mavis

mavis have you tried the pallots index on ancestry......you might him there........he might older than you think?? is that a possibility sylvia

Thanks everyone, for all the helpful possibles, but Mavis has just discovered an oophs, that family keeps staying in Lancashire in the cotton trade and I know my John Rose for sure has got to be in Flookburgh by 1871 as a tailor. Must have crossed my John's before I got full Ancestry membership. So anyone want a load of print outs for that family!!Don't know if it's the right marriage certificate yet or not. Am I going to bed, or staying up til I sort it, or give up? Wasn't totally wasted, next time I get a marriage certificate without a father's name (which is where this all started) I'll know what to assume! Thanks again all those who offered suggestions, who knows, one of them might still link up! Doing contortions kicking myself, Mavis